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I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of t

I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of the box is to put the battery in. Even if the person at the store does this for you, just by watching you can easly do it yourself. And since iphones are a huge role model, if they implement it others will follow along.

orev 8y ago
All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.
- tjoff 8y ago
  Nah, we have decades of experience of doing this. And it doesn't really affect size or price either, that was evident back when you had a choice in the matter. It's just that manufacturers would rather sell you a new phone than a new battery. Shocking, I know...
- copperx 8y ago
  Even though I hate things made out of plastic, plastic IS the right material for building a phone. Plastic is hard to scratch, has grip, is lightweight, and is hard to break.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Remember iPhone 5c? People absolutely hated it because it was plastic (well, that, and some other reasons–but mainly because it seemed "cheap").
    - jstarfish 8y ago
      I'm not a materials scientist, but something has happened to consumer plastics in the last 40-60 years-- it's changed for the worse (I'm assuming in an effort to be "green", which happily coincides with undermining durability). We used to be able to buy Fisher-Price toys that were tough enough to bear the weight of a car, or withstand multiple generations of abuse by children. I've got plastic toolboxes inherited from my grandfather that still hold up. Take a look at the ratings and user photos for plastic vehicle ramps on Amazon and consider whether you think you could even get the jack stands in before the ramps collapse. Kids' toys are flimsier than ever, yet despite the "cheaper" construction they're also more expensive than ever. I bought my kids the Barbie Dreamhouse (a $100+ marvel of plastic and cardboard) that collapsed under its own weight. The original Nintendo equipment was light-years more rugged than the endless RMA experience that is the Switch. We have the technology to make plastics that don't feel "cheap" and the products reusable, but for whatever reasons we've clearly steered away from these goals.
      - zrobotics 8y ago
        Plastics have actually gotten better in the intervening years, but the advances in machining have allowed far more complicated molds than was once economical. This allows designers to use less plastic, and make it "strong enough". I was recently shopping for a gift for my nephew, and was horrendously disappointed in the Fischer price products- for the money, they didn't seem anywhere near the quality I remembered. However, one only needs to examine something like cordless tools or Lego to realize quality products can be made using plastic.
    - thirdsun 8y ago
      To be fair, Nokia's Windows Phones used plastic which felt rather valuable and high quality. It was an excellent finish that doesn't feel out of a place in a premium device at all.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  Taking more space, yes. Being fragile, really not. If Apple wants to make resilient devices they'd start by using materials not as fragile as glass or thin aluminium. Say, differentially hardened steel (incl. plated) or advanced composites. Just like watches. Then, the only problem is extra space for the battery connector. They could even sell users a prismatic pouch with no plastic shell as the battery. The actual tricky part is that integrated battery allows better cooling by use of messy thermal compound. You could have a foam thermal pad instead below the battery cover.
- birksherty 8y ago
  I don't know where all these wrong facts are coming from. Nokia phones were not fragile. I have dropped them many times. The battery gets out and I can insert it back and it works again. Nothing breaks. And they work year after year. I also have a cheap Chinese android phone that behaves like that. I believe mobile companies (and tech reviewers) have spread lies in this regard.
sbuk 8y ago
You're going to have to do better than "...but in Europe they sell really good."

orev 8y ago

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

tjoff 8y ago
Nah, we have decades of experience of doing this. And it doesn't really affect size or price either, that was evident back when you had a choice in the matter. It's just that manufacturers would rather sell you a new phone than a new battery. Shocking, I know...
copperx 8y ago
Even though I hate things made out of plastic, plastic IS the right material for building a phone. Plastic is hard to scratch, has grip, is lightweight, and is hard to break.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Remember iPhone 5c? People absolutely hated it because it was plastic (well, that, and some other reasons–but mainly because it seemed "cheap").
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    I'm not a materials scientist, but something has happened to consumer plastics in the last 40-60 years-- it's changed for the worse (I'm assuming in an effort to be "green", which happily coincides with undermining durability). We used to be able to buy Fisher-Price toys that were tough enough to bear the weight of a car, or withstand multiple generations of abuse by children. I've got plastic toolboxes inherited from my grandfather that still hold up. Take a look at the ratings and user photos for plastic vehicle ramps on Amazon and consider whether you think you could even get the jack stands in before the ramps collapse. Kids' toys are flimsier than ever, yet despite the "cheaper" construction they're also more expensive than ever. I bought my kids the Barbie Dreamhouse (a $100+ marvel of plastic and cardboard) that collapsed under its own weight. The original Nintendo equipment was light-years more rugged than the endless RMA experience that is the Switch. We have the technology to make plastics that don't feel "cheap" and the products reusable, but for whatever reasons we've clearly steered away from these goals.
    - zrobotics 8y ago
      Plastics have actually gotten better in the intervening years, but the advances in machining have allowed far more complicated molds than was once economical. This allows designers to use less plastic, and make it "strong enough". I was recently shopping for a gift for my nephew, and was horrendously disappointed in the Fischer price products- for the money, they didn't seem anywhere near the quality I remembered. However, one only needs to examine something like cordless tools or Lego to realize quality products can be made using plastic.
  - thirdsun 8y ago
    To be fair, Nokia's Windows Phones used plastic which felt rather valuable and high quality. It was an excellent finish that doesn't feel out of a place in a premium device at all.
AstralStorm 8y ago
Taking more space, yes. Being fragile, really not. If Apple wants to make resilient devices they'd start by using materials not as fragile as glass or thin aluminium. Say, differentially hardened steel (incl. plated) or advanced composites. Just like watches. Then, the only problem is extra space for the battery connector. They could even sell users a prismatic pouch with no plastic shell as the battery. The actual tricky part is that integrated battery allows better cooling by use of messy thermal compound. You could have a foam thermal pad instead below the battery cover.
birksherty 8y ago
I don't know where all these wrong facts are coming from. Nokia phones were not fragile. I have dropped them many times. The battery gets out and I can insert it back and it works again. Nothing breaks. And they work year after year. I also have a cheap Chinese android phone that behaves like that. I believe mobile companies (and tech reviewers) have spread lies in this regard.

sbuk 8y ago

You're going to have to do better than "...but in Europe they sell really good."