4 ms·

"the rise of Trump was and is based mostly on rednecks blaming the loss of their jobs on immigrants" Please stop calling them "rednecks" and please don't assum

"the rise of Trump was and is based mostly on rednecks blaming the loss of their jobs on immigrants" Please stop calling them "rednecks" and please don't assume that all his supporters were simply anti-immigration. While "redneckism" was a part of their campaign, Trump was elected by college educated, white suburban women too. Personally, the Trump supporters I've talked with are mostly well-off (small business owners), and mostly disconnected from world news. They don't identify as rednecks, and live in a very blue state. The usual justification goes like this "I worked for what I have, I don't think others should get hand outs" and "Politicians are all evil, I like that Trump is 'shaking things up'" To be clear, I'm not defending Trump supporters but rather advocating for looking at them with a broader view. While my state is one of the most liberal in the nation, 50% of my neighbors identify with GOP messaging.

GW150914 8y ago
I think all of what you’re saying can hold for people who supported Trump before his election, to an extent. Now however? I’m not inclined to cut people who still support him any slack. He’s more than demonstrated that in addition to all of his many hideous qualities, he’s not shaking anything up. The massive tax cut, continuing with the wars, involvement in Syria, etc, are all pure status quo. The ways in which he’s demonstrably different are his open racism, misogyny, and anti-democratic, anti-immigration stances. And polls keep showing that the people who voted for him do not regret their vote. “Redneck” may be unfair, and a slur, but the spirit of it in term of cultural identity (small-minded racists) has sadly been proven through his continued support.
- josefresco 8y ago
  "Now however?" A logical thing to assume for someone who is fully engaged with current events/news. However, most don't follow /r/politics religiously, and the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it (with the outrage that they should be) so many are still blissfully ignorant. Or is it willfully ignorant?
  - chii 8y ago
    claiming ignorance is no defence in court. Why should it be a defence for trump voting?
    - josefresco 8y ago
      It shouldn't but ...these people don't have to testify in court. They get to cast a vote, in private, while also publicly decrying Trump and harmful GOP policies to their neighbors.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it Even from here in Germany, newspapers make headlines with every little tweet that Trump spews out, not to mention every tiny detail from the Mueller probe. Same for social media. You gotta run through the world blindfolded to be unaware of Trumps scandals...
    - josefresco 8y ago
      Good for Germany. In the US we have "network news" and "cable news". Network news is what the workers, families and people who just want a quick update on the world watch. This nightly news (30-60 min) focuses mostly on local horrors like murders, robberies, fires etc. with a smattering of positive local happenings. They might touch for 1-2 minutes on national/political news, and in doing so attempt to tell it in a way that doesn't piss off 50% of their audience. People that watch this news, as their primary source are blissfully unaware of how bad it really is. They think it's just "politics as usual" and don't want to be bummed out after a long day at work. Then we have cable news, which is is a 24/7 IV drip for retirees, stay at homes, jobless Americans and the most militant supporters on both sides. If you identify with Republicans you watch Fox News if you identify with Democrats, you watch MSNBC. Both leave you feeling outraged, exhausted and convinced the other side is "lying to you". Then, both sides retreat to social media, where their friends and family re-enforce what they already feel - further widening the divide between Americans.
      - 8y ago
davewritescode 8y ago
They don’t identify as rednecks because most of polite society looks down on those types of people. Over the past 40 years we’ve demonized manual labor and the people who perform it as lower class and undeserving of nice things. Real success after all is an office job, just ask any high school guidance counselor. Most people have the innate sense that something in our society is deeply unfair and they’re looking for someone to blame. Trump offers easy solutions. What we should refuse to do is let anyone off the hook for supporting Trump. Just because you like his business policies doesn’t mean you get to look the other way when he does monstrous things like locking migrant families in detention centers.
- josefresco 8y ago
  American identity politics started long before Trump, and long before the GOP's modern assault on governance. I just finished reading; White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America - it was illuminating. The war against "cultural elites" started with the first "mountain men" that ran for office in contrast to the 'educated elites' from "the North". Sound familiar? It's not liberals, leftists or elitists who started the war on manual labor - they used it to separate themselves a long time ago. This of course was connected to slavery, which left the south under-educated and feeling personally attacked. Too much to cover here, just read the book!

GW150914 8y ago

I think all of what you’re saying can hold for people who supported Trump before his election, to an extent. Now however? I’m not inclined to cut people who still support him any slack. He’s more than demonstrated that in addition to all of his many hideous qualities, he’s not shaking anything up. The massive tax cut, continuing with the wars, involvement in Syria, etc, are all pure status quo. The ways in which he’s demonstrably different are his open racism, misogyny, and anti-democratic, anti-immigration stances. And polls keep showing that the people who voted for him do not regret their vote. “Redneck” may be unfair, and a slur, but the spirit of it in term of cultural identity (small-minded racists) has sadly been proven through his continued support.

josefresco 8y ago
"Now however?" A logical thing to assume for someone who is fully engaged with current events/news. However, most don't follow /r/politics religiously, and the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it (with the outrage that they should be) so many are still blissfully ignorant. Or is it willfully ignorant?
- chii 8y ago
  claiming ignorance is no defence in court. Why should it be a defence for trump voting?
  - josefresco 8y ago
    It shouldn't but ...these people don't have to testify in court. They get to cast a vote, in private, while also publicly decrying Trump and harmful GOP policies to their neighbors.
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > the nightly network news certainly isn't covering it Even from here in Germany, newspapers make headlines with every little tweet that Trump spews out, not to mention every tiny detail from the Mueller probe. Same for social media. You gotta run through the world blindfolded to be unaware of Trumps scandals...
  - josefresco 8y ago
    Good for Germany. In the US we have "network news" and "cable news". Network news is what the workers, families and people who just want a quick update on the world watch. This nightly news (30-60 min) focuses mostly on local horrors like murders, robberies, fires etc. with a smattering of positive local happenings. They might touch for 1-2 minutes on national/political news, and in doing so attempt to tell it in a way that doesn't piss off 50% of their audience. People that watch this news, as their primary source are blissfully unaware of how bad it really is. They think it's just "politics as usual" and don't want to be bummed out after a long day at work. Then we have cable news, which is is a 24/7 IV drip for retirees, stay at homes, jobless Americans and the most militant supporters on both sides. If you identify with Republicans you watch Fox News if you identify with Democrats, you watch MSNBC. Both leave you feeling outraged, exhausted and convinced the other side is "lying to you". Then, both sides retreat to social media, where their friends and family re-enforce what they already feel - further widening the divide between Americans.
    - 8y ago

davewritescode 8y ago

They don’t identify as rednecks because most of polite society looks down on those types of people. Over the past 40 years we’ve demonized manual labor and the people who perform it as lower class and undeserving of nice things. Real success after all is an office job, just ask any high school guidance counselor. Most people have the innate sense that something in our society is deeply unfair and they’re looking for someone to blame. Trump offers easy solutions. What we should refuse to do is let anyone off the hook for supporting Trump. Just because you like his business policies doesn’t mean you get to look the other way when he does monstrous things like locking migrant families in detention centers.

josefresco 8y ago
American identity politics started long before Trump, and long before the GOP's modern assault on governance. I just finished reading; White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America - it was illuminating. The war against "cultural elites" started with the first "mountain men" that ran for office in contrast to the 'educated elites' from "the North". Sound familiar? It's not liberals, leftists or elitists who started the war on manual labor - they used it to separate themselves a long time ago. This of course was connected to slavery, which left the south under-educated and feeling personally attacked. Too much to cover here, just read the book!