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"Matt Kilcoyne, of the free market think-tank the Adam Smith Institute, disagrees. "Quite frankly Bezos's greatest act of philanthropy is Amazon itself," he ar

"Matt Kilcoyne, of the free market think-tank the Adam Smith Institute, disagrees. "Quite frankly Bezos's greatest act of philanthropy is Amazon itself," he argues. "Lower prices, more choice and competition have delivered billions for Bezos and billions worth for the hundreds of millions of customers he serves." " I do think feel strong about Bezos plans, but it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good. Pretty sure all the people who worked in book shops don't think so.

bluecalm 8y ago
Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin. That old industry got killed is natural when progress happens.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Amazon also set new lows for how to pay and treat employees, and how little it is possible to care about selling counterfeit products.
  - a008t 8y ago
    Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful. Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly.
    - ionised 8y ago
      > Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful. Plenty of shitty companies are successful. They just need to. be more convenient than their competitors. > Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly. Not yet.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      The customer's don't see the horrible conditions behind the scenes, all they see are cheap products. If you're a delivery driver, your job options are extremely limited. You can deliver fast food, or deliver for companies like Amazon. It's either that, or starve.
      - danielmg 8y ago
        Or learn another skill?
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Not really something you can "just do", when you're living paycheck to paycheck and can barely even pay rent, even after moving to more affordable accommodation, while also keeping your ~15 year old car running, because it's your lifeline to even having a job in the first place.
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    I never understand why people say things like this. It's not even remotely true. For instance we can quantify the salary comment. A quick search for fulfillment center work showed salaries starting at $12-$14/hour. The median pay for retail work, by contrast, is $11.24 [1], which means 50% of workers earn less than that. It's not possible to similarly conveniently quantify concern about counterfeit, but if you think they genuinely do not care about it then I don't even know what to say. Even from a purely greed centered point of view, counterfeits hurt mid to longterm revenue. [1] - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      I base my impression of their working conditions on a friend of mine, who's worked both the warehouses and as a delivery driver. The managers are slave drivers, and if you're just a minute or two behind on a schedules delivery, you get dinged, a black mark on your employment record and a severe talking-down. Even if the delay is of no fault of your own (bad traffic, weather, etc.), it's seen as a personal failure on your part. No level of pay can make up for being treated like shit. Regarding the counterfeits, Amazon loves to say how they're dealing with the issue, but the examples just keep piling up. And of course their childish behavior around Chromecast and Youtube.
- csydas 8y ago
  I'm not sure I'd allow the delivery times and customer support to be attributed as a real thing to Amazon. Both were meant as audience capturing tactics and were basically unattainable by most all other competitors due to costs -- Amazon only avoided it riding on a large wave of money and eating costs for years until it was the only game in town. Now you can't have a thread about Amazon without constant complaints about the 2-Day shipping never really being 2-Day shipping, the constant fakes that plague the Amazon inventory (with a seemingly blind-eye from Amazon itself on it), and so on. These weren't really public goods introduced by Amazon, as plenty of stores handle the customer service side just fine in most cases, and the delivery stuff was mostly just investors subsidizing the costs for a time, which appears to no longer be a major focal point.
  - darawk 8y ago
    Except that you can still just as easily buy things from normal retailers. They're not dead. People choose not to because the value of obtaining things from Amazon remains higher to them.
  - TheTrotters 8y ago
    Perhaps it’s selection bias. People who are happy with Amazon may not see the need to comment about it in every thread. But to counter this trend: I am very, very happy that Amazon exists. It’s allowed me to discover and buy plenty of books that I otherwise would never read or sample. Not to mention dozens of everyday items I buy from them. Nail clippers, socks, alarm clock, router, resistance bands, headphones and many more I’m forgetting about. It’s all under one roof, delivery is usually very fast (sometimes it’s just one day on two-day delivery; when there are some delays and it takes an extra day they always notify me by e-mail). Amazon is great and I’m a more-than-satisfied consumer.
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    It's not only about costs. It's really about hard work to deliver the best for customers. Many online retailers simply do not make efforts to deliver, quite apart from any cost consideration, and then they moan about Amazon. In addition, it's also about creating trust. Buying something online requires more trust than buying from a store so convincing people that it's safe and that there won't be any issues with returns and refunds is a big part of getting people to place and order and to come back.
- itsmenotyou 8y ago
  That people benefited from internet shopping and delivery is not a defense of a company treating it's workers badly or evading paying taxes. Let's not pretend amazon is the only company that might have delivered those efficiencies, they were just the most successful, the most ruthless.
  - bluecalm 8y ago
    You can't expect companies to fight for greater good and sacrifice their interests for the overall good. In fact it's against the law for them to do that. Amazon hires a lot of people and in many countries pay reasonably well. With taxes it does what the law allows. If you want to change those things start with changing the law, ending policies hurting the working class (limiting low skill migration would be the first step) and getting rid of ridiculous taxes like corporate income tax you claim Amazon dodged (while in fact it pays what the law requires it to pay). Blaming the player for playing the game well while taking care of what they are legally obliged to do (shareholder value) is neither smart nor constructive.
    - pixl97 8y ago
      Oh no, the foxes eat us, that is their job... "Why dont we get rid of the foxes, we have the power to do that" No, no, that seems like a silly idea, status quo is the best.
    - macintux 8y ago
      > In fact it's against the law for them to do that. No, it’s not. The corporation’s interests must align with the shareholders, but there’s no law that says short-term profit is the only legal goal. Companies can and have sacrificed in order to build the community.
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        Public trading often leads to that however with activist investors. Anyone who sees them acting suboptomally for the short term can buy in, pressure for more short term interests and lobby to get their way then jump off before it collapses with their gains. Even without that scheming continuous gains are demanded generally.
- andrepd 8y ago
  Shortening the delivery times from 3 to 2 days incurs a >40% increase in fuel costs. You claim the slight convenience of having stuff on your doorstep on Wednesday rather than Thursday not only outweighs that massive inefficiency and all its externalities, but is in fact a "significant improvement of the lives of millions of people".
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin. Have you counted the lives and communities it destroyed (e.g. closing local alternatives and smaller chains)? The environmental cost from such large scale delivery of every possible BS? The externalities (including accumulated power to single person who contracts for the military industrial complex and runs newspapers)?
gadders 8y ago
I'm sure the people that manufactured buggy whips didn't think cars or mass transit was a public good either. Sadly, stuff like this happens as the world advances. I have a lot of sympathy for people in this situation and think they should be re-trained, but I wouldn't hold back progress.
Treegarden 8y ago
I dont quite understand this reoccurring sentiment about the poor book shops. Here in Germany the bookshops mainly feature fear mongering books and are mostly in German. Then there is a tiny section of english books (which often happen to be better then the German books displayed). Maybe this dos not apply to all German book shops but I feel like they haven't gotten with the times yet.
- csydas 8y ago
  This might just be my perception since I spent a lot of time in college towns in the US, but book shops are kind of like coffee houses in that many people seem to get the idea that they'd be successful in running one, and often enough you see a bookshop pop-up for a few months then just vanish after it fails to gain traction and sustain. Bookshops in the US, however, tend to be way different than you're describing and instead are pretty much just a repository for dumping books. Most (unsurprisingly) double up on the dream and also become coffee houses, and they also try to act as an arts hub for the community, doing like talks, workshops, etc. So that's mostly what people are commenting on I would assume.
- onion2k 8y ago
  Here in the UK most of the bookshops that just sold books have gone. Now most bookshops are essentially cafes that also sell books. There are a few exceptions - in London there are some niche booksellers, and most university cities have a bookshop that stocks textbooks, but it's generally true.
ckastner 8y ago
> I do think feel strong about Bezos plans, but it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good. Totally. Yes, in the past Amazon has as some point contributed to the lowering of prices, by challenging the dominant players in retail markets. But now, Amazon is the dominant player in the retail market, and Amazon seems to exploit this to the greatest extent possible. Here's an excellent quote from recent thread [1] about one of Amazon's practices: "Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17959085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17959085
- Silhouette 8y ago
  "Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly." Which is an interesting assumption, but certainly not a correct one. They have lost a lot of my business in recent years due to frequent poor quality control and customer service issues.
  - ckastner 8y ago
    Perhaps not a universally correct one, but most probably a sufficiently accurate one, given Amazon's continued revenue growth. This is similar to the chronological vs. algorithmic timeline debates in social media: it's annoying to many users, but the overall result must be positive, otherwise they probably wouldn't be doing it, in face of the backlash.
    - Silhouette 8y ago
      If the trends continue over a period of several years, that may prove to be true. Anecdotally, I am far from alone among my friends and family in perceiving that Amazon's quality, reliability and customer service have degraded sharply in recent years. It's not just the counterfeits issue. Their basic product organisation is terrible these days, and it's often difficult to figure out if I'm ordering the correct edition of something. They've also failed to deliver Christmas shopping by the guaranteed dates. They've sent many items out that were packaged in obviously absurd ways and arrived predictably damaged, and then had basic problems with their returns procedures causing customers a lot of hassle. Perhaps more dangerous for Amazon, though, is that they are not always competitive on pricing with my local book and general stores any more. I can buy a new movie from Amazon and have it arrive tomorrow with perhaps a 5-10% chance that it's a bad copy and won't play. If I can buy the same movie for the same or less from my local store when I do my grocery shopping, and be guaranteed a proper UK product that I can see looks undamaged when I pick it off the shelf, which I can then enjoy watching this evening, what am I going to do? It's a similar story for buying books from a good local bookshop, and rumours of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.
andromedavision 8y ago
> it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good Well, it's either good or it's bad. It seems you think it's the latter and I think you're wrong. All the merchants whose businesses have been transformed for the better would disagree. Those merchants' customers would disagree as well.
js8 8y ago
"it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good" No, it is an outrageous claim. Let's be clear - these ASI guys are useful idiots. Compare Jeff Bezos to Linus Torvalds. I am still waiting when ASI will call Linus "a greatest philantropist". He would absolutely deserve that. Instead, he gets called "asshole" by some people. C*suckery of these people is just insane.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
thefounder 8y ago
>> more choice and competition What competition?
- sokoloff 8y ago
  For many products on Amazon, there are several sellers, each competing for the "buy box". Third party sellers are not an unalloyed good, but on balance are good for Amazon shoppers, IMO. Outside of Amazon, Amazon has helped to set new standards for online commerce (free shipping, fast shipping, no/few questions customer service). When you see Zappos (now Amazon), Jet, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, and Ebay all mimicking aspects of the Amazon shopping experience, you're also seeing increased competition. It also has effects on brick and mortar commerce that are beneficial for consumers. Some stores match Amazon prices in the walk-in stores. It has absolutely taken margin out of the retail industry, making it harder on retailers, but so long as they don't fail in droves, margin leaving the industry is money that's being returned to consumers, at least in part.
  - thefounder 8y ago
    There is competition between small sellers until Amazon decides to compete with them, and that's it...remember Amazon refusing to sell Chromecast? Or using dumping against competitors? Not to mention that all the sellers have to pay Amazon a fee so there is no competition with Amazon.
samsari 8y ago
Free market think-tank says free market is good. More on this breaking story as it happens.
MrEfficiency 8y ago
Amazon has helped me 'invent' things. I cannot deny that getting components in 2 days for mere dollars has been very useful. This cascades as I then provide value for people that buy my later inventions. Sure I can use digikey, but it takes 7-9 days to get parts for a reasonable price. While Amazon has gotten worse in the last few years, they still have crushed the established standards for shipping.
zekevermillion 8y ago
This meshes with the 'hipster antitrust' argument, that the consumer surplus measure is not the whole story. If low prices are so great for us, why is it that small communities are objectively so down-and-out even in the midst of unprecedentedly cheap stuff.
dashmatte 8y ago
"Pretty sure all the people who worked in book shops don't think so." I'm pretty sure independent self-publishing authors do think so.
zem 8y ago
the one thing i've read about amazon's impact that made a lasting, positive impression on me was by a black woman who noted that when she shopped on amazon, no one followed her around the store. there was also some commentary on underserved communities where traditional retailers were reluctant to set up shop. of course, this is really an argument for ubiquitous online retail rather than amazon in particular, but it was a good point in their favour. (sadly, it seems to be being built by exploiting workers, which is why i cannot take any claims of philanthropy seriously.)
- thedailymail 8y ago
  That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought about before. At the same time though, it is certain that her every move while on the site was being monitored, recorded and analyzed – just like everyone else's.
  - zem 8y ago
    sure, but she's not being discriminated against for being black, which is absolutely the case in a ton of brick and mortar stores.

bluecalm 8y ago

Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin. That old industry got killed is natural when progress happens.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
Amazon also set new lows for how to pay and treat employees, and how little it is possible to care about selling counterfeit products.
- a008t 8y ago
  Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful. Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly.
  - ionised 8y ago
    > Clearly they have been better than the alternatives for customers - otherwise, they would not be successful. Plenty of shitty companies are successful. They just need to. be more convenient than their competitors. > Employees also have a choice - Amazon is not a monopoly. Not yet.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    The customer's don't see the horrible conditions behind the scenes, all they see are cheap products. If you're a delivery driver, your job options are extremely limited. You can deliver fast food, or deliver for companies like Amazon. It's either that, or starve.
    - danielmg 8y ago
      Or learn another skill?
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Not really something you can "just do", when you're living paycheck to paycheck and can barely even pay rent, even after moving to more affordable accommodation, while also keeping your ~15 year old car running, because it's your lifeline to even having a job in the first place.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  I never understand why people say things like this. It's not even remotely true. For instance we can quantify the salary comment. A quick search for fulfillment center work showed salaries starting at $12-$14/hour. The median pay for retail work, by contrast, is $11.24 [1], which means 50% of workers earn less than that. It's not possible to similarly conveniently quantify concern about counterfeit, but if you think they genuinely do not care about it then I don't even know what to say. Even from a purely greed centered point of view, counterfeits hurt mid to longterm revenue. [1] - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    I base my impression of their working conditions on a friend of mine, who's worked both the warehouses and as a delivery driver. The managers are slave drivers, and if you're just a minute or two behind on a schedules delivery, you get dinged, a black mark on your employment record and a severe talking-down. Even if the delay is of no fault of your own (bad traffic, weather, etc.), it's seen as a personal failure on your part. No level of pay can make up for being treated like shit. Regarding the counterfeits, Amazon loves to say how they're dealing with the issue, but the examples just keep piling up. And of course their childish behavior around Chromecast and Youtube.
csydas 8y ago
I'm not sure I'd allow the delivery times and customer support to be attributed as a real thing to Amazon. Both were meant as audience capturing tactics and were basically unattainable by most all other competitors due to costs -- Amazon only avoided it riding on a large wave of money and eating costs for years until it was the only game in town. Now you can't have a thread about Amazon without constant complaints about the 2-Day shipping never really being 2-Day shipping, the constant fakes that plague the Amazon inventory (with a seemingly blind-eye from Amazon itself on it), and so on. These weren't really public goods introduced by Amazon, as plenty of stores handle the customer service side just fine in most cases, and the delivery stuff was mostly just investors subsidizing the costs for a time, which appears to no longer be a major focal point.
- darawk 8y ago
  Except that you can still just as easily buy things from normal retailers. They're not dead. People choose not to because the value of obtaining things from Amazon remains higher to them.
- TheTrotters 8y ago
  Perhaps it’s selection bias. People who are happy with Amazon may not see the need to comment about it in every thread. But to counter this trend: I am very, very happy that Amazon exists. It’s allowed me to discover and buy plenty of books that I otherwise would never read or sample. Not to mention dozens of everyday items I buy from them. Nail clippers, socks, alarm clock, router, resistance bands, headphones and many more I’m forgetting about. It’s all under one roof, delivery is usually very fast (sometimes it’s just one day on two-day delivery; when there are some delays and it takes an extra day they always notify me by e-mail). Amazon is great and I’m a more-than-satisfied consumer.
- ElBarto 8y ago
  It's not only about costs. It's really about hard work to deliver the best for customers. Many online retailers simply do not make efforts to deliver, quite apart from any cost consideration, and then they moan about Amazon. In addition, it's also about creating trust. Buying something online requires more trust than buying from a store so convincing people that it's safe and that there won't be any issues with returns and refunds is a big part of getting people to place and order and to come back.
itsmenotyou 8y ago
That people benefited from internet shopping and delivery is not a defense of a company treating it's workers badly or evading paying taxes. Let's not pretend amazon is the only company that might have delivered those efficiencies, they were just the most successful, the most ruthless.
- bluecalm 8y ago
  You can't expect companies to fight for greater good and sacrifice their interests for the overall good. In fact it's against the law for them to do that. Amazon hires a lot of people and in many countries pay reasonably well. With taxes it does what the law allows. If you want to change those things start with changing the law, ending policies hurting the working class (limiting low skill migration would be the first step) and getting rid of ridiculous taxes like corporate income tax you claim Amazon dodged (while in fact it pays what the law requires it to pay). Blaming the player for playing the game well while taking care of what they are legally obliged to do (shareholder value) is neither smart nor constructive.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    Oh no, the foxes eat us, that is their job... "Why dont we get rid of the foxes, we have the power to do that" No, no, that seems like a silly idea, status quo is the best.
  - macintux 8y ago
    > In fact it's against the law for them to do that. No, it’s not. The corporation’s interests must align with the shareholders, but there’s no law that says short-term profit is the only legal goal. Companies can and have sacrificed in order to build the community.
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      Public trading often leads to that however with activist investors. Anyone who sees them acting suboptomally for the short term can buy in, pressure for more short term interests and lobby to get their way then jump off before it collapses with their gains. Even without that scheming continuous gains are demanded generally.
andrepd 8y ago
Shortening the delivery times from 3 to 2 days incurs a >40% increase in fuel costs. You claim the slight convenience of having stuff on your doorstep on Wednesday rather than Thursday not only outweighs that massive inefficiency and all its externalities, but is in fact a "significant improvement of the lives of millions of people".
coldtea 8y ago
>Way more people benefited from Amazon. It's cheaper. It set a new standard in delivery times and customer support. Its existence improved life of millions of people by significant margin. Have you counted the lives and communities it destroyed (e.g. closing local alternatives and smaller chains)? The environmental cost from such large scale delivery of every possible BS? The externalities (including accumulated power to single person who contracts for the military industrial complex and runs newspapers)?

gadders 8y ago

I'm sure the people that manufactured buggy whips didn't think cars or mass transit was a public good either. Sadly, stuff like this happens as the world advances. I have a lot of sympathy for people in this situation and think they should be re-trained, but I wouldn't hold back progress.

Treegarden 8y ago

I dont quite understand this reoccurring sentiment about the poor book shops. Here in Germany the bookshops mainly feature fear mongering books and are mostly in German. Then there is a tiny section of english books (which often happen to be better then the German books displayed). Maybe this dos not apply to all German book shops but I feel like they haven't gotten with the times yet.

csydas 8y ago
This might just be my perception since I spent a lot of time in college towns in the US, but book shops are kind of like coffee houses in that many people seem to get the idea that they'd be successful in running one, and often enough you see a bookshop pop-up for a few months then just vanish after it fails to gain traction and sustain. Bookshops in the US, however, tend to be way different than you're describing and instead are pretty much just a repository for dumping books. Most (unsurprisingly) double up on the dream and also become coffee houses, and they also try to act as an arts hub for the community, doing like talks, workshops, etc. So that's mostly what people are commenting on I would assume.
onion2k 8y ago
Here in the UK most of the bookshops that just sold books have gone. Now most bookshops are essentially cafes that also sell books. There are a few exceptions - in London there are some niche booksellers, and most university cities have a bookshop that stocks textbooks, but it's generally true.

ckastner 8y ago

> I do think feel strong about Bezos plans, but it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good. Totally. Yes, in the past Amazon has as some point contributed to the lowering of prices, by challenging the dominant players in retail markets. But now, Amazon is the dominant player in the retail market, and Amazon seems to exploit this to the greatest extent possible. Here's an excellent quote from recent thread [1] about one of Amazon's practices: "Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17959085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17959085

Silhouette 8y ago
"Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly." Which is an interesting assumption, but certainly not a correct one. They have lost a lot of my business in recent years due to frequent poor quality control and customer service issues.
- ckastner 8y ago
  Perhaps not a universally correct one, but most probably a sufficiently accurate one, given Amazon's continued revenue growth. This is similar to the chronological vs. algorithmic timeline debates in social media: it's annoying to many users, but the overall result must be positive, otherwise they probably wouldn't be doing it, in face of the backlash.
  - Silhouette 8y ago
    If the trends continue over a period of several years, that may prove to be true. Anecdotally, I am far from alone among my friends and family in perceiving that Amazon's quality, reliability and customer service have degraded sharply in recent years. It's not just the counterfeits issue. Their basic product organisation is terrible these days, and it's often difficult to figure out if I'm ordering the correct edition of something. They've also failed to deliver Christmas shopping by the guaranteed dates. They've sent many items out that were packaged in obviously absurd ways and arrived predictably damaged, and then had basic problems with their returns procedures causing customers a lot of hassle. Perhaps more dangerous for Amazon, though, is that they are not always competitive on pricing with my local book and general stores any more. I can buy a new movie from Amazon and have it arrive tomorrow with perhaps a 5-10% chance that it's a bad copy and won't play. If I can buy the same movie for the same or less from my local store when I do my grocery shopping, and be guaranteed a proper UK product that I can see looks undamaged when I pick it off the shelf, which I can then enjoy watching this evening, what am I going to do? It's a similar story for buying books from a good local bookshop, and rumours of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

andromedavision 8y ago

> it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good Well, it's either good or it's bad. It seems you think it's the latter and I think you're wrong. All the merchants whose businesses have been transformed for the better would disagree. Those merchants' customers would disagree as well.

js8 8y ago

"it's a bit of a stretch to claim Amazon is a public good" No, it is an outrageous claim. Let's be clear - these ASI guys are useful idiots. Compare Jeff Bezos to Linus Torvalds. I am still waiting when ASI will call Linus "a greatest philantropist". He would absolutely deserve that. Instead, he gets called "asshole" by some people. C*suckery of these people is just insane.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

thefounder 8y ago

>> more choice and competition What competition?

sokoloff 8y ago
For many products on Amazon, there are several sellers, each competing for the "buy box". Third party sellers are not an unalloyed good, but on balance are good for Amazon shoppers, IMO. Outside of Amazon, Amazon has helped to set new standards for online commerce (free shipping, fast shipping, no/few questions customer service). When you see Zappos (now Amazon), Jet, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, and Ebay all mimicking aspects of the Amazon shopping experience, you're also seeing increased competition. It also has effects on brick and mortar commerce that are beneficial for consumers. Some stores match Amazon prices in the walk-in stores. It has absolutely taken margin out of the retail industry, making it harder on retailers, but so long as they don't fail in droves, margin leaving the industry is money that's being returned to consumers, at least in part.
- thefounder 8y ago
  There is competition between small sellers until Amazon decides to compete with them, and that's it...remember Amazon refusing to sell Chromecast? Or using dumping against competitors? Not to mention that all the sellers have to pay Amazon a fee so there is no competition with Amazon.

samsari 8y ago

Free market think-tank says free market is good. More on this breaking story as it happens.

MrEfficiency 8y ago

Amazon has helped me 'invent' things. I cannot deny that getting components in 2 days for mere dollars has been very useful. This cascades as I then provide value for people that buy my later inventions. Sure I can use digikey, but it takes 7-9 days to get parts for a reasonable price. While Amazon has gotten worse in the last few years, they still have crushed the established standards for shipping.

zekevermillion 8y ago

This meshes with the 'hipster antitrust' argument, that the consumer surplus measure is not the whole story. If low prices are so great for us, why is it that small communities are objectively so down-and-out even in the midst of unprecedentedly cheap stuff.

dashmatte 8y ago

"Pretty sure all the people who worked in book shops don't think so." I'm pretty sure independent self-publishing authors do think so.

zem 8y ago

the one thing i've read about amazon's impact that made a lasting, positive impression on me was by a black woman who noted that when she shopped on amazon, no one followed her around the store. there was also some commentary on underserved communities where traditional retailers were reluctant to set up shop. of course, this is really an argument for ubiquitous online retail rather than amazon in particular, but it was a good point in their favour. (sadly, it seems to be being built by exploiting workers, which is why i cannot take any claims of philanthropy seriously.)

thedailymail 8y ago
That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought about before. At the same time though, it is certain that her every move while on the site was being monitored, recorded and analyzed – just like everyone else's.
- zem 8y ago
  sure, but she's not being discriminated against for being black, which is absolutely the case in a ton of brick and mortar stores.