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How Game Apps That Captivate Kids Have Been Collecting Their Data
- sverige 8y agoThe first generation to have nearly every moment of their lives tracked has already been born. That is frightening.
- fenwick67 8y agoGosh, I'm just shocked that the data-driven advertising model isn't respectful to users! /s
- mothers 8y agoNothing will come out of this. If people think it's OK to track adults it'll be OK to track kids.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- lsmarigo 8y ago> “The F.T.C. has made enforcement of the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act a high priority,” said Juliana Gruenwald, an agency spokeswoman. > “These sophisticated tech companies are not policing themselves,” the New Mexico attorney general, Hector Balderas, said. “The children of this country ultimately pay the price.” > “This is as much a black eye on the federal government as the tech space,” Mr. Balderas said. “I’m trying to get lawmakers at the federal level to wake up.” This is like going after drug dealers for parking violations and calling a press conference to proudly brag about it. Game publishers are doing much worse stuff and you're making a big deal about going after them for tracking!? To not even mention in passing loot boxes, really NYT? one of the most pervasive unethical rackets in modern tech targeting children, much worse than tracking because it causes real harm to individuals. FTC: Feel free to exploit young underdeveloped brains to addict them to gambling for profit as long as you're not tracking them.
- creep 8y ago> Feel free to exploit young underdeveloped brains to addict them to gambling for profit Games are designed to keep you interested and engaged-- that's just what a game is. Children's games have included gambling since toys have existed (dreidel, jacks, marbles, to name a few). Children learn about the real world through play, and gambling is a part of that. Risks give benefits or consequences that are often unpredictable. I don't see the explicit benefit of excluding these gambles from children's games.
- lsmarigo 8y ago> Games are designed to keep you interested and engaged-- that's just what a game is. Children's games have included gambling since toys have existed (dreidel, jacks, marbles, to name a few). You're not wrong, can also point to baseball cards, magic the gathering or pokemon cards. The key differences today are 1) Instant-availability of the secondary market and third party sites that allow you to gamble with virtual currency you've won. 2) Devs/Publishers hiring psychologists and cognitive behavior specialists to design these loot box experiences to release the perfect amount of dopamine to get users addicted, with frightening efficiency. In comparison your examples are extremely mild. You could say it's the parents responsibility to educate and protect their children from these practices - but would you say the same about the tobacco industry advertising to children? For me this is the same addiction from profit motive the tobacco industry exploited for many years until they were rightfully regulated.
- kown223 8y agothere "Instant-availability of the secondary market" you're just talking bullshit, there is no such thing, as per your second point so what? do you think pokemon cards people didn't hired "specialists" either? What are those design choices to make them addicted, is a box it opens and that's it. This kind of post is what I hate about NY, people thinking they are so smart, while having quite a narrow/naive/first world view.
- lsmarigo 8y ago
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- JustSomeNobody 8y agoI would love to hear from the engineers why they work for companies that track and addict kids.
- aaaaaaaaaab 8y agoBecause they pay.
- tobyhinloopen 8y agoYou don’t see it as addicting kids. Its creating a fun experience for “free” that is paid by advertising or data gathering. Don’t the games, hate the cheap parents. Besides, all games are designed to be addictive. That’s what games are. They provide a fast feedback loop of small successes
- newscracker 8y agoCompartmentalization. Even psychopaths can do it. This is why even the people who work for a company like Facebook and are on HN won't admit to themselves what they're really helping grow.
- throw2016 8y agoUser data is a business model that a significant portion of tech workers are now vested in, this constant stream of conversation and hand waving among insiders who are designing and implementing these systems without protest, dissent or advocating any course of corrective action has normalized it, like state and private surveillance. Now it just serves as signalling to outsiders by those vested in the system to pretend they are not responsible and somehow equally shocked. That also explains why inspite of so much 'hand wringing' and 'concern' Google, Facebook and others continue to enjoy respectability in tech circles with no shortage of people eager to work for them. But here is the problem, we expect even the poor and desperate to behave ethically, for highly educated privileged individuals to behave unethically means there is now no basis for expecting any ethical behavior from others in society and you create the conditions for your children and others to live in damaging environments.
- eh78ssxv2f 8y ago> engineers why they work for companies that track and addict kids. If you think addictive games are bad, then we can go ahead and cast a moral judgement ib parents too. Parents know that games are addictive. Why are they letting their own kids play addictive games? As far as engineers go, it is possible that they did made the game addictive specifically for <13 years old. It just happens that parents of <13 year olds let their kids play, and they are getting addicted.
- leowoo91 8y agoDoes anyone know if using popular advertisement networks require submission of personal data?
- patja 8y agoI teach coding and robotics to kids age 10 - 14. I'm constantly having to tell them to fill in the birthdate field accurately when signing up for things like Scratch or TinkerCAD because I know it triggers a different account creation path that complies with COPPA. After half the class says "but my parents tell me to just lie about my age so I can use free stuff online" I end up having to have a whole conversation with the class about COPPA, and more to the point, the question "Is it OK to misrepresent yourself to someone else in order to get them to give you something they otherwise would not" and the slippery slope of little white lies, and when is it OK to lie. It's a good conversation but always eye opening to see what is taught at home. Of course many of these 10 - 12 year olds are also playing GTA V and other MA games with their parents' permission.
- fzeroracer 8y agoTo be honest, I would probably be the person telling kids to never share accurate information about yourself online. Granted this is bad advice if you're convincing kids to not play mature games (which should be a whole separate conversation in itself) but I think there's a huge looming issue with online presence. There's a lot of kids leaving a huge amount of information about them online because of the internet storing almost everything they do. They link every account or every detail to themselves in real life, making it easy for people and companies to gather a ton of free data. Some of which might be dangerous to their future careers.
- whoopdedo 8y agoWhich is why I feel telling kids not to share things online is like abstinence-only sex ed. As an adult, you have the wisdom and self-restraint to practice abstinence. Teenagers have neither of those. But they do have brains and bodies that put them at risk for STDs or pregnancy. It's foolish to make them take a gamble that their physiology has stacked the deck against them. Socializing with your peers is as natural as sex. We grew up where online communication was either non-existent or niche enough that we don't feel it's necessary for socialization. But teenagers today have been exposed to the internet since birth. To them not participating in social networks is as absurd as being constantly online is uncomfortable to the older generation. Or it's like telling a teenager to ignore their sexual desire. It's not going to happen. So teaching kids how to be safe online while still participating is the practical thing to do. And it's important to give them tools and knowledge that makes it possible for them succeed in protecting themselves. When I think about it that way, I question my own standing in the privacy debate. I often point out how older people seem out-of-touch with how technology works. Well I don't participate in a lot of social platforms. Why should I be listened to about what is appropriate for those companies? I can say what I want for myself, but that isn't necessarily helpful for people who have a different lifestyle than I do. Does being too severe an advocate for privacy, and demonizing social media companies make me like to the old church lady saying that giving out condoms in school is evil?
- gesman 8y agoWe need GDPR in USA. Without this - nothing will change. Benefits of abusing children and stealing user's private information to resell to advertisers far outweigh the penalties.