8 ms·

How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

223 points by aytekin 8y ago

tunap 8y ago
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. Blaise Pascal
- some_account 8y ago
  People have become so incredibly needy of others approval and attention that some of us don't even function properly when being alone. This makes us incredibly week as well, totally dependent on others to feel good.
  - tomxor 8y ago
    Some people. Those of us who are quite happy to be alone, or even prefer it, cannot be noticed or included in these statements (by definition).
    - trukterious 8y ago
      It seems to me like gregarious people and loners can be after the same thing. Some people want acceptance and approval from others whereas other people have more of an inner connection to the same source. What is the source? We don't understand (yet) but it's an interesting clue that the things other people like about you aren't necessarily the things you like about yourself.
    - watwut 8y ago
      Even people who normally like to be alone tend to break down in various ways whrn they are really isolated for long time. Needing to be alone after school or work is not quite the same as being alone 24/7 for months.
      - tomxor 8y ago
        > Needing to be alone after school or work is not quite the same as being alone 24/7 for months. Yes that is a different kind of solitude, this is more of a distinction between people who are part of society but with minimal social interaction, and those who seek maximal interaction and have some kind of dysfunction without it (e.g depression). I'm more part of the former group, I don't usually seek out social interaction but don't shun it either. I enjoy interesting conversations with people but I never feel lonely in their absence. I suspect this may have more to do with what else fills a persons life, rather than some deeper psychological difference (or some crude dichotomy such as introvert vs extrovert as many probably attribute it to).
  - rland 8y ago
    We are totally dependent on others to feel good. It is how we are wired as social creatures. Every single person, without exception, begins their life needy of another's approval and attention. The attention of others is how we construct ourselves. Over time, we lose part but not all of that need, in different ways, depending on the interpersonal dynamic with our parents. A healthy person's end result is a healthy balance of dependence: too much can be limiting to a person's own agency, while too little means a miserable, lonely existence. It's not weak to be dependent on others. On the contrary, it requires emotional strength — a strength which is built. Typically by families, but sometimes by close friends, caregivers, or significant others.
majos 8y ago
Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teens and 20s. This had benefits: Bob's social needs are low to non-existent, and while he has loving family and friends, he enjoys sustained solitude. For example, weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him. The downside was that he got too used to this. Engaging with other people is messy and hard to control. If you don't have that gnawing bit inside that's hungry for attention and connection, it's easy to decide all that mess isn't worth it. That can hurt people who need those connections more, as they may feel themselves weak or pathetic by comparison. Relationships with other people can become strained if you are at least approximately self-sufficient. Briefly, my point is most people need (or at least want) to be needed. Somebody who's truly content with solitude isn't going to put that need out there, so relationships with such a person might be more difficult. Of course, too much need is another problem. But a little need seems good. (This point is pretty tailored to the HN community, which appears to have a lot of stoicism and solitude devotees. I like both too, but I think the point above is worth remembering. The mutual exchange of vulnerabilities is an important component of close friendships.)
- urban_strike 8y ago
  That's certainly been my experience. Relationships and friendships tend to fall apart if one of them is emotionally self-sufficient. The core relationship-driver of emotional neediness and desire that's apparently the natural state for many appears to be both the glue that binds and the carrot to actually bother building relationships in the first place.
- robotkdick 8y ago
  The mutual exchange of vulnerabilities I agree, and I'd add to your definition to say that the ultimate bonding occurs through finding joy in the mutual exchange of vulnerabilities. For example, last night my wife and I were not seeing eye to eye on how we saw our future. I was busy trying to make her see my side, but it wasn't until I was willing to give up and do things her way that she came around and agreed with my perspective. It was not because I was wrong, it was because I wasn't recognizing her point of view, and that made her feel vulnerable. The joy we experienced mutually at recognizing one another's vulnerabilities is still–the next morning–a sublime feeling, the ultimate experience in life perhaps.
abledon 8y ago
saw this video recently by a contemporary indian thinker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfwqx7MaPog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfwqx7MaPog liked its open ended invitation to investigate 'life' and what it is to be alone in our body.
- fouadf 8y ago
  Just watched that yesterday, sounds like a mix of philosophies, stoicism and being authentic
drewmassey 8y ago
I actually think the author is really smart to point out boredom as an ingredient in the mix. I’m friends with a pretty successful writer who told me a couple of months ago how hard it was to get bored in the modern world, and yet, if you aren’t kind of bored, it is very hard to access the full extent of your imagination to come up with ideas that no one else would.
- robotkdick 8y ago
  I agree. As a writer, when I get stuck, lying on the floor, staring at the ceiling, and doing nothing is usually my most productive time. Also, taking naps is great for productivity.
moneytide 8y ago
I enjoy solitude because I've always had this fear of being a burden to someone else. I take pride in my self sufficiency because of this - I seek to be a provider, not a consumer. Though more recently I've started to see this behavior as a defense mechanism against predatory people. I've been an observer of many dinner table conversations among rent-seeking types, which slowly erodes away my faith in people (the current commander-in-chief of the US is the perfect physical manifestation of this type of thinking - the "I was here first so now I can extract wealth from society" mentality. And it works, because people are eager to pay for luxury real estate) But I digress. And digression is a consequence of solitude since you are not frequently bouncing ideas between other people. It can become a self imposed echo chamber, rationalizing things the way you want without a reality check. As pessimistic as I sound, I know that there are many pure, selfless people in the world. Lots of them have YouTube channels that I'll check up on every few weeks. I want to find more of them and shower them with resources. Apologies for the stream of consciousness format. Apparently I'm leaning more towards loneliness than solitude at the moment, and this article is a prompt to share something outside of my own head.
yawz 8y ago
One of the interesting points in the article is: “embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.
- robotkdick 8y ago
  Just curious. How does your 7-year-old respond?
  - fredsir 8y ago
    “...but that’s boring!!!”
  - yawz 8y ago
    He’s not too convinced at first. But most of the time he ends up with something fun. Which I use as an example the next time he says That he’s bored. As a single child he’s already used to spend some time alone. So it’s relatively rare that we hear “I’m bored”.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >“embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative. Being creative is the opposite of embracing the boredom because you're fighting it by being creative.
  - yawz 8y ago
    Well, alright. I don’t use the word “embrace” with him in any case.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
factsaresacred 8y ago
One of the better of the many (many!) articles on loneliness that have cropped on HN recently. Dovetails nicely with the Digital Nomad post from yesterday. Solitude isn't lonely because you're spending time with yourself - it's a self-imposed retreat in order to write, code, make music, build or reflect. As a result, it's often self-actualizing and you like this version of yourself very much. Loneliness, conversely - especially the kind which manifests despite being in a crowded room - can stem from the feeling that one belongs in a different place, with different people, doing different things. For this is this it? type of loneliness, increased solitude, paradoxically, is often the way to escape it.
seltzered_ 8y ago
“Loneliness epidemic —or a golden age of privacy?” - David Chapman (meaningness) also reflects a bit on this topic https://mobile.twitter.com/meaningness/status/971397606554439681 https://mobile.twitter.com/meaningness/status/97139760655443...
classichasclass 8y ago
I lived alone for almost 17 years in two different apartments (one for 11 of them) and this house until I got married, and even now my wife is overseas for months at a time right now because of what we've gotta do. Solitude is a big part of my life. In the very beginning it could sometimes be very lonely even though I've known I was an introvert since junior high. The worst times were indeed when there was nothing to do. I have to confess the biggest motivator it took for me to evolve and embrace solitude was to realize my fellow medical students had lives of their own and my entire relevance to them was based on what I could fix for them, not who I was. This made me very bitter for awhile, but it also made me determined not to base my happiness on what anyone else thought. It was a lot easier in my second apartment where I had more room and a better layout for hobbies and many of these hobbies I found still bring me enjoyment today. I learned to be one on my own. It is helpful my wife is also an introvert and we had been friends online for awhile before we dated, so she understood this perspective fairly instinctively.
0n0n0m0uz 8y ago
I am very glad to know there are many people out there like myself. This article touched on many good points. I prefer to be alone about 70% of the time. I NEVER feel lonely, in fact just the opposite. I feel inspired in thought and connected to the massive pulsating power of our universe and everything in it. To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spend my time. I have practiced meditation for more than 10 years now and I credit this practice with allowing me to find comfort and power in Solitude. It really is a super power in today's world. I am completely comfortable with myself simply sitting on a bench doing nothing. I do not need more than that. There are certainly times where I do want to be around like minded people. I am constantly getting pressure from family etc.. to change my ways. The vast majority of people are obviously not like this.
- robotkdick 8y ago
  You have probably already read it, but your post reminds me of the book, Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, which is about the life's journey of Buddha, who also discovered that sitting alone was an experience he enjoyed greatly, an activity which gave way to Buddhism, whose ultimate goal is to eliminate human suffering caused by the ego. You seem to be saying the same thing in a different way, which is awesome.
  - scns 8y ago
    Sorry for being pedantic but Siddharta is a story about someone who meets Buddha in person but instead of becoming a disciple he becomes enlightened himself through living a quiet live by a river.
- lihaciudaniel 8y ago
  Also social media, avoiding the constant notifications.
- petra 8y ago
  Talking about a method to improve that ability, that's interesting. And certainly powerful, in today's world. I wonder , what about longer periods of time ? How long can you be alone, without something to do and enjoy it ? And what's the context ?
monster_group 8y ago
FTA - "The interesting thing about the 52 Hertz whale isn’t its loneliness. After all, it can’t be lonely; loneliness is a man-made condition." I find this rather presumptuous. Whales are highly intelligent animals. To allege that they can't be lonely erodes author's credibility.
- cgriswald 8y ago
  I'm not even sure what the author means. The experience of loneliness I have isn't some artificial construct created by other humans, even if my loneliness is due a lack of interaction with other humans. And lots of social animals can experience loneliness.
newscracker 8y ago
There’s one more state — a new kind of “alone connectedness” that most people seem to prefer, which has been fostered and magnified by the Internet and social platforms (I include HN as one of those). Without even communicating with others, even if there are known people in physical proximity, many people feel connected just by being “lurkers” in their favorite corners of the Internet. This is not like passive watching of (live) TV, but is a bit more of a controlled and conscious exercise. So connectedness (as an oppposite of loneliness) is not just about actively interacting with others, but being in a place where relatable people exist. The same applies to outings too. Just being anywhere where other people seem to be is enough to feel it.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  Yeah, that's a very interesting observation. I'm trying to think of pre-internet means of doing that... You can't really observe without being observed in the absence of a broadcast mechanism. You're just the weird person in the back who shows up but doesn't talk to anyone. Might actually be a genuinely novel mode of interaction (if we can really call it "interaction").
- closeparen 8y ago
  Same for cities. If anything, I have a weaker social network after moving to a big city, but the ambient energy makes me feel less alone.
  - frereubu 8y ago
    When I was single and lived in London, I used to love walking through the city during the evening and into the night, being surrounded by people but not having to take part in any socialising. It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.
    - crooked-v 8y ago
      > It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands. Thank you. You've just given words to the je ne sais quoi that's hung around me when it comes to enjoying city living as a complete introvert.
creep 8y ago
>We can’t simply be. We feel compelled to always do. >We can’t allow ourselves a moment of self-inflicted boredom. >We’re scared of where this boredom will take us. >Of what we will hear in our heads if we lapse into true silence: hopes, dreams, shame, embarrassment… Fear of failure. >We want to be entertained, constantly. The alternative — introspection — intimidates us. I don't know about this one. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but boredom to me comes from "being entertained". My inspiration to "do" rather than to "be" comes from introspection. I'm rarely satisfied unless I'm learning about something or contributing to something-- and usually I like to do this alone, because I know what I like to learn and contribute and only I can do that best. Everything goes wrong when I seek out entertainment, so I usually don't. These lines are kind of patronizing, or feel that way. Not everyone seeks out online psuedo-connection because they're afraid of being alone; some of us, most of us, have an idea of our direction in life, know what we're doing and why. Maybe the article is a message to those who actually feel lonely. I'm not sure. But I disagree with a few sentiments.
- paulkon 8y ago
  I second this. Someone who is alone yet spends large chunks of their time on entertainment (facebook, instagram, snapchat, netflix, etc.) may just be deferring being "in the moment" and the positive benefits or learning, working or thinking alone are not realized in that case.
Regardsyjc 8y ago
I crave solitude yet I still feel lonely, like I'm missing a tribe. I haven't had a chance to be alone by myself for more than an hour for the last few months since I moved in with my boyfriend. I went from lonely entrepreneur to my social bar overflowing into the red zone, where any additional social obligation is a sacrifice of me time. I love my partner, he is the best person ever, but he can't be everything, like sharing my passion about period poverty as much as I can hahaha. I have a loving tribe of wonderful partner, family, and friends but I'm still searching for weirdos like me, entrepreneurs that are more interested in building sustainable and ethical business practices than making money. In that sense, I crave solitude but I still feel lonely, like I'm missing out on very meaningful relationships with people with similar goals and passions.
- thisiszilff 8y ago
  I've always thought that our contemporary world pushes these two sometimes contradictory ideas on us: that we are unique individuals and that we are supposed to have a "tribe" of people like ourselves. The more "unique" you become (or the more intimately you know yourself) the more you're able to draw differences between you and others which impedes finding your "tribe." It's a trope in media to have a "friend group" of people that share certain core, common, traits but these are entirely artificial constructs that don't accuractely reflect the messy business of human relationships. The sleight of hand comes about when we begin to feel as if WE are missing out, as if WE have failed, and not that this artificial notion that's been distilled in us is in actuality unreasonable and unrealistic.
ppeetteerr 8y ago
I feel the article does a poor job of summarizing the problem with loneliness (the diff between a need for socialization and one's ability to receive it) and solitude (the act of being alone). We all have a different need for aloneness, our buckets of social contact are of varying depth and, at different times, feel fuller or less full. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to look inside and ask yourself what it is you want to feel less lonely: - Are you feeling lonely because you are escaping a feeling or because you need to connect and you cannot? - Is there something you can do today so your future self is not feeling lonely? - Can you focus on upcoming engagements to feel comfortable being alone today? - Are there people you can text a quick "hi" to fill that sense of longing, even just momentarily? - Are there little pleasures that you've been neglecting that might only be done when you're alone? It's not simple but the idea of looking inwards is easier than pretending to be a whale. ;)
blackbrokkoli 8y ago
I'm really surprised of the thread here, considering nothing is faster calling out people overstepping the bounds of their credibility than HackerNews, usually. The author wildly mixes statistic sources with inspirational tinder-quotes, mentions research about that abnormal whale, than boils it down to grandma-psychology and does a general bad job separating "my opinion", "read somewhere" and "credible source". In a similar fashion, comments here confusing anecdotes with science and vice versa. Of course loneliness is compared to network-cryptography a wider experienced phenomenon and can be discussed on a personal level if you declare that, but I find it very hard to extract anything of value here...
Razengan 8y ago
Solitude is drifting on the ocean or through space in your ship, putting into ports or landing on planets at your leisure. Loneliness is not knowing anyone who still talks to you after you disembark.
bazooka2th 8y ago
"you can be alone, millions of miles away from any human contact, and still feel joyfully connected to the world" I'd like a citation.
- dopelikeapnp 8y ago
  https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo14/hires/as14_66_09232.jpg https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo14/...
dopelikeapnp 8y ago
Am I pretentious or are 95% of medium posts boring and trite?
tokai 8y ago
I see some of you commenting about being introvert and liking to be alone, but still feeling the sting of loneliness. I just wanted to share an excerpt from the abstract of Robert Burton's wonderful Anatomy of Melancholy published in 1621. I think the alternating allure of solitude is at the base of being human. Friends and companions get you gone, 'Tis my desire to be alone; Ne'er well but when my thoughts and I Do domineer in privacy. No Gem, no treasure like to this, 'Tis my delight, my crown, my bliss. All my joys to this are folly, Naught so sweet as melancholy. 'Tis my sole plague to be alone, I am a beast, a monster grown, I will no light nor company, I find it now my misery. The scene is turn'd, my joys are gone, Fear, discontent, and sorrows come. All my griefs to this are jolly, Naught so fierce as melancholy.
- amsilprotag 8y ago
  I remember reading earlier this year a commencement speech at West Point in 2010 by William Deresiewicz. [0] I think the skill of being alone with one's thoughts has become rarer and more valuable with each passing year. [0] https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/ https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/
moneytide1 8y ago
I enjoy solitude because I've always had this fear of being a burden to someone else. I take pride in my self sufficiency because of this - I seek to be a provider, not a consumer. Though more recently I've started to see this behavior as a defense mechanism against predatory people. I've been an observer of many dinner table conversations among rent-seeking types, which slowly erodes away my faith in people (the current commander-in-chief of the US is the perfect physical manifestation of this type of thinking - the "I was here first so now I can extract wealth from society" mentality. And it works, because people are eager to pay for luxury real estate) But I digress. And digression is a consequence of solitude since you are not frequently bouncing ideas between other people. It can become a self imposed echo chamber, rationalizing things the way you want without a reality check. As pessimistic as I sound, I know that there are many pure, selfless people in the world. Lots of them have YouTube channels that I'll check up on every few weeks. I want to find more of them and shower them with resources. Apologies for the stream of consciousness format. Apparently I'm leaning more towards loneliness than solitude at the moment, and this article is a prompt to share something outside of my own head.
- nanomonkey 8y ago
  >I enjoy solitude because I've always had this fear of being a burden to someone else. I take pride in my self sufficiency because of this - I seek to be a provider, not a consumer. Wow, that actually resonates with my own actions. I like people, but I'm always wary of the costs of interacting with them.
peterwwillis 8y ago
> loneliness is a man-made condition. On the contrary, any social animal can get lonely. There's a wide range of behavior in the socialization of animal species. Even slime moulds are highly social. What is considered healthy or helpful social behavior varies, both by species and by groups. Therefore, trying to extrapolate lessons about human social behavior from the frequency of whale calls may not be very useful. Loneliness is an unpleasant experience caused by a biological motivator to seek out social contact. If you're a social animal and you don't have contact with social animals when you would normally want it, you will feel some form of loneliness. Loneliness is subjective because it is a symptom of a subject's need not being fulfilled, and those needs can vary. Solitude is more complex than loneliness. Solitude is the state of being secluded or isolated, and may or may not be chosen. When compared to loneliness, it can be considered a positive, whereas loneliness is a negative. While loneliness is a symptom of a lack of social connection, solitude has a vast array of features. Prolonged solitude can cause mental instability such as hallucination, time distortion, psychosis, and other negative physiological reactions. But solitude can also enhance self-esteem and creativity and be personally gratifying. "How to be satisfied with being alone" could be more simply described as the ability to understand a particular need and how to deal with it. You may not be able to eliminate the need, because you don't necessarily have full control over the thoughts in your head, nor your situation. Mental illness and physical isolation, for example, can prevent you from eliminating the need for social connection. A child, adolescent, or teen also doesn't have much agency, and can have difficulty managing their thought processes. But an adult with full agency and who is mentally healthy can probably address their symptoms of loneliness. So, how to be alone? I would say, first learn to understand why you are lonely, and whether this need serves a useful purpose. Then, find healthy ways to choose to experience solitude, and make it personally fulfilling. That's my take on it, anyway.

223 points by aytekin 8y ago

tunap 8y ago

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. Blaise Pascal

some_account 8y ago
People have become so incredibly needy of others approval and attention that some of us don't even function properly when being alone. This makes us incredibly week as well, totally dependent on others to feel good.
- tomxor 8y ago
  Some people. Those of us who are quite happy to be alone, or even prefer it, cannot be noticed or included in these statements (by definition).
  - trukterious 8y ago
    It seems to me like gregarious people and loners can be after the same thing. Some people want acceptance and approval from others whereas other people have more of an inner connection to the same source. What is the source? We don't understand (yet) but it's an interesting clue that the things other people like about you aren't necessarily the things you like about yourself.
  - watwut 8y ago
    Even people who normally like to be alone tend to break down in various ways whrn they are really isolated for long time. Needing to be alone after school or work is not quite the same as being alone 24/7 for months.
    - tomxor 8y ago
      > Needing to be alone after school or work is not quite the same as being alone 24/7 for months. Yes that is a different kind of solitude, this is more of a distinction between people who are part of society but with minimal social interaction, and those who seek maximal interaction and have some kind of dysfunction without it (e.g depression). I'm more part of the former group, I don't usually seek out social interaction but don't shun it either. I enjoy interesting conversations with people but I never feel lonely in their absence. I suspect this may have more to do with what else fills a persons life, rather than some deeper psychological difference (or some crude dichotomy such as introvert vs extrovert as many probably attribute it to).
- rland 8y ago
  We are totally dependent on others to feel good. It is how we are wired as social creatures. Every single person, without exception, begins their life needy of another's approval and attention. The attention of others is how we construct ourselves. Over time, we lose part but not all of that need, in different ways, depending on the interpersonal dynamic with our parents. A healthy person's end result is a healthy balance of dependence: too much can be limiting to a person's own agency, while too little means a miserable, lonely existence. It's not weak to be dependent on others. On the contrary, it requires emotional strength — a strength which is built. Typically by families, but sometimes by close friends, caregivers, or significant others.

majos 8y ago

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teens and 20s. This had benefits: Bob's social needs are low to non-existent, and while he has loving family and friends, he enjoys sustained solitude. For example, weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him. The downside was that he got too used to this. Engaging with other people is messy and hard to control. If you don't have that gnawing bit inside that's hungry for attention and connection, it's easy to decide all that mess isn't worth it. That can hurt people who need those connections more, as they may feel themselves weak or pathetic by comparison. Relationships with other people can become strained if you are at least approximately self-sufficient. Briefly, my point is most people need (or at least want) to be needed. Somebody who's truly content with solitude isn't going to put that need out there, so relationships with such a person might be more difficult. Of course, too much need is another problem. But a little need seems good. (This point is pretty tailored to the HN community, which appears to have a lot of stoicism and solitude devotees. I like both too, but I think the point above is worth remembering. The mutual exchange of vulnerabilities is an important component of close friendships.)

urban_strike 8y ago
That's certainly been my experience. Relationships and friendships tend to fall apart if one of them is emotionally self-sufficient. The core relationship-driver of emotional neediness and desire that's apparently the natural state for many appears to be both the glue that binds and the carrot to actually bother building relationships in the first place.
robotkdick 8y ago
The mutual exchange of vulnerabilities I agree, and I'd add to your definition to say that the ultimate bonding occurs through finding joy in the mutual exchange of vulnerabilities. For example, last night my wife and I were not seeing eye to eye on how we saw our future. I was busy trying to make her see my side, but it wasn't until I was willing to give up and do things her way that she came around and agreed with my perspective. It was not because I was wrong, it was because I wasn't recognizing her point of view, and that made her feel vulnerable. The joy we experienced mutually at recognizing one another's vulnerabilities is still–the next morning–a sublime feeling, the ultimate experience in life perhaps.

abledon 8y ago

saw this video recently by a contemporary indian thinker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfwqx7MaPog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfwqx7MaPog liked its open ended invitation to investigate 'life' and what it is to be alone in our body.

fouadf 8y ago
Just watched that yesterday, sounds like a mix of philosophies, stoicism and being authentic

drewmassey 8y ago

I actually think the author is really smart to point out boredom as an ingredient in the mix. I’m friends with a pretty successful writer who told me a couple of months ago how hard it was to get bored in the modern world, and yet, if you aren’t kind of bored, it is very hard to access the full extent of your imagination to come up with ideas that no one else would.

robotkdick 8y ago
I agree. As a writer, when I get stuck, lying on the floor, staring at the ceiling, and doing nothing is usually my most productive time. Also, taking naps is great for productivity.

moneytide 8y ago

I enjoy solitude because I've always had this fear of being a burden to someone else. I take pride in my self sufficiency because of this - I seek to be a provider, not a consumer. Though more recently I've started to see this behavior as a defense mechanism against predatory people. I've been an observer of many dinner table conversations among rent-seeking types, which slowly erodes away my faith in people (the current commander-in-chief of the US is the perfect physical manifestation of this type of thinking - the "I was here first so now I can extract wealth from society" mentality. And it works, because people are eager to pay for luxury real estate) But I digress. And digression is a consequence of solitude since you are not frequently bouncing ideas between other people. It can become a self imposed echo chamber, rationalizing things the way you want without a reality check. As pessimistic as I sound, I know that there are many pure, selfless people in the world. Lots of them have YouTube channels that I'll check up on every few weeks. I want to find more of them and shower them with resources. Apologies for the stream of consciousness format. Apparently I'm leaning more towards loneliness than solitude at the moment, and this article is a prompt to share something outside of my own head.

yawz 8y ago

One of the interesting points in the article is: “embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.

robotkdick 8y ago
Just curious. How does your 7-year-old respond?
- fredsir 8y ago
  “...but that’s boring!!!”
- yawz 8y ago
  He’s not too convinced at first. But most of the time he ends up with something fun. Which I use as an example the next time he says That he’s bored. As a single child he’s already used to spend some time alone. So it’s relatively rare that we hear “I’m bored”.
whatshisface 8y ago
>“embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative. Being creative is the opposite of embracing the boredom because you're fighting it by being creative.
- yawz 8y ago
  Well, alright. I don’t use the word “embrace” with him in any case.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

factsaresacred 8y ago

One of the better of the many (many!) articles on loneliness that have cropped on HN recently. Dovetails nicely with the Digital Nomad post from yesterday. Solitude isn't lonely because you're spending time with yourself - it's a self-imposed retreat in order to write, code, make music, build or reflect. As a result, it's often self-actualizing and you like this version of yourself very much. Loneliness, conversely - especially the kind which manifests despite being in a crowded room - can stem from the feeling that one belongs in a different place, with different people, doing different things. For this is this it? type of loneliness, increased solitude, paradoxically, is often the way to escape it.

seltzered_ 8y ago

“Loneliness epidemic —or a golden age of privacy?” - David Chapman (meaningness) also reflects a bit on this topic https://mobile.twitter.com/meaningness/status/971397606554439681 https://mobile.twitter.com/meaningness/status/97139760655443...

classichasclass 8y ago

I lived alone for almost 17 years in two different apartments (one for 11 of them) and this house until I got married, and even now my wife is overseas for months at a time right now because of what we've gotta do. Solitude is a big part of my life. In the very beginning it could sometimes be very lonely even though I've known I was an introvert since junior high. The worst times were indeed when there was nothing to do. I have to confess the biggest motivator it took for me to evolve and embrace solitude was to realize my fellow medical students had lives of their own and my entire relevance to them was based on what I could fix for them, not who I was. This made me very bitter for awhile, but it also made me determined not to base my happiness on what anyone else thought. It was a lot easier in my second apartment where I had more room and a better layout for hobbies and many of these hobbies I found still bring me enjoyment today. I learned to be one on my own. It is helpful my wife is also an introvert and we had been friends online for awhile before we dated, so she understood this perspective fairly instinctively.

0n0n0m0uz 8y ago

I am very glad to know there are many people out there like myself. This article touched on many good points. I prefer to be alone about 70% of the time. I NEVER feel lonely, in fact just the opposite. I feel inspired in thought and connected to the massive pulsating power of our universe and everything in it. To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spend my time. I have practiced meditation for more than 10 years now and I credit this practice with allowing me to find comfort and power in Solitude. It really is a super power in today's world. I am completely comfortable with myself simply sitting on a bench doing nothing. I do not need more than that. There are certainly times where I do want to be around like minded people. I am constantly getting pressure from family etc.. to change my ways. The vast majority of people are obviously not like this.

robotkdick 8y ago
You have probably already read it, but your post reminds me of the book, Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, which is about the life's journey of Buddha, who also discovered that sitting alone was an experience he enjoyed greatly, an activity which gave way to Buddhism, whose ultimate goal is to eliminate human suffering caused by the ego. You seem to be saying the same thing in a different way, which is awesome.
- scns 8y ago
  Sorry for being pedantic but Siddharta is a story about someone who meets Buddha in person but instead of becoming a disciple he becomes enlightened himself through living a quiet live by a river.
lihaciudaniel 8y ago
Also social media, avoiding the constant notifications.
petra 8y ago
Talking about a method to improve that ability, that's interesting. And certainly powerful, in today's world. I wonder , what about longer periods of time ? How long can you be alone, without something to do and enjoy it ? And what's the context ?

monster_group 8y ago

FTA - "The interesting thing about the 52 Hertz whale isn’t its loneliness. After all, it can’t be lonely; loneliness is a man-made condition." I find this rather presumptuous. Whales are highly intelligent animals. To allege that they can't be lonely erodes author's credibility.

cgriswald 8y ago
I'm not even sure what the author means. The experience of loneliness I have isn't some artificial construct created by other humans, even if my loneliness is due a lack of interaction with other humans. And lots of social animals can experience loneliness.

newscracker 8y ago

There’s one more state — a new kind of “alone connectedness” that most people seem to prefer, which has been fostered and magnified by the Internet and social platforms (I include HN as one of those). Without even communicating with others, even if there are known people in physical proximity, many people feel connected just by being “lurkers” in their favorite corners of the Internet. This is not like passive watching of (live) TV, but is a bit more of a controlled and conscious exercise. So connectedness (as an oppposite of loneliness) is not just about actively interacting with others, but being in a place where relatable people exist. The same applies to outings too. Just being anywhere where other people seem to be is enough to feel it.

wool_gather 8y ago
Yeah, that's a very interesting observation. I'm trying to think of pre-internet means of doing that... You can't really observe without being observed in the absence of a broadcast mechanism. You're just the weird person in the back who shows up but doesn't talk to anyone. Might actually be a genuinely novel mode of interaction (if we can really call it "interaction").
closeparen 8y ago
Same for cities. If anything, I have a weaker social network after moving to a big city, but the ambient energy makes me feel less alone.
- frereubu 8y ago
  When I was single and lived in London, I used to love walking through the city during the evening and into the night, being surrounded by people but not having to take part in any socialising. It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    > It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands. Thank you. You've just given words to the je ne sais quoi that's hung around me when it comes to enjoying city living as a complete introvert.

creep 8y ago

>We can’t simply be. We feel compelled to always do. >We can’t allow ourselves a moment of self-inflicted boredom. >We’re scared of where this boredom will take us. >Of what we will hear in our heads if we lapse into true silence: hopes, dreams, shame, embarrassment… Fear of failure. >We want to be entertained, constantly. The alternative — introspection — intimidates us. I don't know about this one. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but boredom to me comes from "being entertained". My inspiration to "do" rather than to "be" comes from introspection. I'm rarely satisfied unless I'm learning about something or contributing to something-- and usually I like to do this alone, because I know what I like to learn and contribute and only I can do that best. Everything goes wrong when I seek out entertainment, so I usually don't. These lines are kind of patronizing, or feel that way. Not everyone seeks out online psuedo-connection because they're afraid of being alone; some of us, most of us, have an idea of our direction in life, know what we're doing and why. Maybe the article is a message to those who actually feel lonely. I'm not sure. But I disagree with a few sentiments.

paulkon 8y ago
I second this. Someone who is alone yet spends large chunks of their time on entertainment (facebook, instagram, snapchat, netflix, etc.) may just be deferring being "in the moment" and the positive benefits or learning, working or thinking alone are not realized in that case.

Regardsyjc 8y ago

I crave solitude yet I still feel lonely, like I'm missing a tribe. I haven't had a chance to be alone by myself for more than an hour for the last few months since I moved in with my boyfriend. I went from lonely entrepreneur to my social bar overflowing into the red zone, where any additional social obligation is a sacrifice of me time. I love my partner, he is the best person ever, but he can't be everything, like sharing my passion about period poverty as much as I can hahaha. I have a loving tribe of wonderful partner, family, and friends but I'm still searching for weirdos like me, entrepreneurs that are more interested in building sustainable and ethical business practices than making money. In that sense, I crave solitude but I still feel lonely, like I'm missing out on very meaningful relationships with people with similar goals and passions.

thisiszilff 8y ago
I've always thought that our contemporary world pushes these two sometimes contradictory ideas on us: that we are unique individuals and that we are supposed to have a "tribe" of people like ourselves. The more "unique" you become (or the more intimately you know yourself) the more you're able to draw differences between you and others which impedes finding your "tribe." It's a trope in media to have a "friend group" of people that share certain core, common, traits but these are entirely artificial constructs that don't accuractely reflect the messy business of human relationships. The sleight of hand comes about when we begin to feel as if WE are missing out, as if WE have failed, and not that this artificial notion that's been distilled in us is in actuality unreasonable and unrealistic.

ppeetteerr 8y ago

I feel the article does a poor job of summarizing the problem with loneliness (the diff between a need for socialization and one's ability to receive it) and solitude (the act of being alone). We all have a different need for aloneness, our buckets of social contact are of varying depth and, at different times, feel fuller or less full. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to look inside and ask yourself what it is you want to feel less lonely: - Are you feeling lonely because you are escaping a feeling or because you need to connect and you cannot? - Is there something you can do today so your future self is not feeling lonely? - Can you focus on upcoming engagements to feel comfortable being alone today? - Are there people you can text a quick "hi" to fill that sense of longing, even just momentarily? - Are there little pleasures that you've been neglecting that might only be done when you're alone? It's not simple but the idea of looking inwards is easier than pretending to be a whale. ;)

blackbrokkoli 8y ago

I'm really surprised of the thread here, considering nothing is faster calling out people overstepping the bounds of their credibility than HackerNews, usually. The author wildly mixes statistic sources with inspirational tinder-quotes, mentions research about that abnormal whale, than boils it down to grandma-psychology and does a general bad job separating "my opinion", "read somewhere" and "credible source". In a similar fashion, comments here confusing anecdotes with science and vice versa. Of course loneliness is compared to network-cryptography a wider experienced phenomenon and can be discussed on a personal level if you declare that, but I find it very hard to extract anything of value here...

Razengan 8y ago

Solitude is drifting on the ocean or through space in your ship, putting into ports or landing on planets at your leisure. Loneliness is not knowing anyone who still talks to you after you disembark.

bazooka2th 8y ago

"you can be alone, millions of miles away from any human contact, and still feel joyfully connected to the world" I'd like a citation.

dopelikeapnp 8y ago
https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo14/hires/as14_66_09232.jpg https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo14/...

dopelikeapnp 8y ago

Am I pretentious or are 95% of medium posts boring and trite?

tokai 8y ago

I see some of you commenting about being introvert and liking to be alone, but still feeling the sting of loneliness. I just wanted to share an excerpt from the abstract of Robert Burton's wonderful Anatomy of Melancholy published in 1621. I think the alternating allure of solitude is at the base of being human. Friends and companions get you gone, 'Tis my desire to be alone; Ne'er well but when my thoughts and I Do domineer in privacy. No Gem, no treasure like to this, 'Tis my delight, my crown, my bliss. All my joys to this are folly, Naught so sweet as melancholy. 'Tis my sole plague to be alone, I am a beast, a monster grown, I will no light nor company, I find it now my misery. The scene is turn'd, my joys are gone, Fear, discontent, and sorrows come. All my griefs to this are jolly, Naught so fierce as melancholy.

amsilprotag 8y ago
I remember reading earlier this year a commencement speech at West Point in 2010 by William Deresiewicz. [0] I think the skill of being alone with one's thoughts has become rarer and more valuable with each passing year. [0] https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/ https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/

moneytide1 8y ago

nanomonkey 8y ago
>I enjoy solitude because I've always had this fear of being a burden to someone else. I take pride in my self sufficiency because of this - I seek to be a provider, not a consumer. Wow, that actually resonates with my own actions. I like people, but I'm always wary of the costs of interacting with them.

peterwwillis 8y ago

> loneliness is a man-made condition. On the contrary, any social animal can get lonely. There's a wide range of behavior in the socialization of animal species. Even slime moulds are highly social. What is considered healthy or helpful social behavior varies, both by species and by groups. Therefore, trying to extrapolate lessons about human social behavior from the frequency of whale calls may not be very useful. Loneliness is an unpleasant experience caused by a biological motivator to seek out social contact. If you're a social animal and you don't have contact with social animals when you would normally want it, you will feel some form of loneliness. Loneliness is subjective because it is a symptom of a subject's need not being fulfilled, and those needs can vary. Solitude is more complex than loneliness. Solitude is the state of being secluded or isolated, and may or may not be chosen. When compared to loneliness, it can be considered a positive, whereas loneliness is a negative. While loneliness is a symptom of a lack of social connection, solitude has a vast array of features. Prolonged solitude can cause mental instability such as hallucination, time distortion, psychosis, and other negative physiological reactions. But solitude can also enhance self-esteem and creativity and be personally gratifying. "How to be satisfied with being alone" could be more simply described as the ability to understand a particular need and how to deal with it. You may not be able to eliminate the need, because you don't necessarily have full control over the thoughts in your head, nor your situation. Mental illness and physical isolation, for example, can prevent you from eliminating the need for social connection. A child, adolescent, or teen also doesn't have much agency, and can have difficulty managing their thought processes. But an adult with full agency and who is mentally healthy can probably address their symptoms of loneliness. So, how to be alone? I would say, first learn to understand why you are lonely, and whether this need serves a useful purpose. Then, find healthy ways to choose to experience solitude, and make it personally fulfilling. That's my take on it, anyway.