4 ms·

Sorry, but Taiwan has been totally independent from China for many decades. I guess only China considers Taiwan still a part of China.

whooshee 8y ago
You must know Chiang never acknowledged Taiwan's independence instead he had been trying to get back mainland and maintain ROC. It's more complicated.
sdinsn 8y ago
China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a single China, they just disagree about who should lead it. So technically, Taiwan considers itself part of China, in an abstract sense.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  > China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a single China More info please, this isn't what I know of Taiwan.
  - platinumrad 8y ago
    It depends on how the "One China Policy" is interpreted, and it is interpreted quite differently quite differently by different factions within Taiwan. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982858
  - perennate 8y ago
    My understanding is that the Taiwanese government has not renounced claims over mainland China because doing so would piss off China, who would view it as a step towards independence. Aside from escalation of tensions, pissing off PRC would likely worsen economic relations, which I think would be more damaging to Taiwan than to China (according to Wikipedia, China is Taiwan's largest import/export partner). Absent the political/economic ramifications, I believe only a very small percentage of Taiwan's population would mind if Taiwan renounced these claims. Even "pro-reunification" KMT has stepped a bit back from its reunification stance, e.g. setting conditions like "democracy, economic development to a level near that of Taiwan, and equitable wealth distribution" for China before reunification can occur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan). So, for many, the only reason to support an "eventual reunification" stance is it'd strengthen the economy, i.e., they don't mind China playing its word games if it means peace and Taiwan prospering. This doesn't mean "pro-independence" pan-green party ignores the economic effects. They argue for developing economic relations with other countries, to reduce economic dependence on China, and thus make independence more practical.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Only the KMT believes that, while the pan greens (including the current president) do not. The KMT has always represented the mainlanders that came to Taiwan in 1949, while the other party represents the Taiwanese who revolted against the KMT from the onset. That division continues to this day.
  - perennate 8y ago
    I mostly agree with you (and upvoted your comment), but I think modern KMT doesn't really believe that either, they just say they "believe it" to maintain healthy cross-strait relations. KMT values economy over opposing "one China". I would say DPP values eventual independence more, but they still recognize the economic ramifications and thus seek to develop economic relations with other countries to reduce reliance on China (but how successful this has been is debated). Anyway even DPP says they support "one China" to some degree, they're just more willing than KMT to risk supporting it to a lesser degree.
- perennate 8y ago
  This view of the situation is one advanced by PRC. I doubt very many Taiwanese people actually care about leading China or believe that ROC will ever become the de facto government over all of China. The only reason that Taiwan gives the perception that it supports re-unification / "one China" (part of which includes maintaining its claims over mainland China) is to maintain good political and economic relations with China. Because opposing re-unification would piss off China.
- natch 8y ago
  On the Taiwan side, you are mistaking lip service for conviction. The government now mostly takes that position due to threat of violence if they don’t.
- CogitoCogito 8y ago
  This is just confusing pedantically. It was clear the parent poster used the common shorthand of ROC = Taiwan and PRC = Chin. Change the parent posters claim to the ROC and the PRC have been independent for decades and it's totally true.

whooshee 8y ago

You must know Chiang never acknowledged Taiwan's independence instead he had been trying to get back mainland and maintain ROC. It's more complicated.

sdinsn 8y ago

China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a single China, they just disagree about who should lead it. So technically, Taiwan considers itself part of China, in an abstract sense.

philliphaydon 8y ago
> China and Taiwan have a long standing agreement that they are both part of a single China More info please, this isn't what I know of Taiwan.
- platinumrad 8y ago
  It depends on how the "One China Policy" is interpreted, and it is interpreted quite differently quite differently by different factions within Taiwan. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982858
- perennate 8y ago
  My understanding is that the Taiwanese government has not renounced claims over mainland China because doing so would piss off China, who would view it as a step towards independence. Aside from escalation of tensions, pissing off PRC would likely worsen economic relations, which I think would be more damaging to Taiwan than to China (according to Wikipedia, China is Taiwan's largest import/export partner). Absent the political/economic ramifications, I believe only a very small percentage of Taiwan's population would mind if Taiwan renounced these claims. Even "pro-reunification" KMT has stepped a bit back from its reunification stance, e.g. setting conditions like "democracy, economic development to a level near that of Taiwan, and equitable wealth distribution" for China before reunification can occur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan). So, for many, the only reason to support an "eventual reunification" stance is it'd strengthen the economy, i.e., they don't mind China playing its word games if it means peace and Taiwan prospering. This doesn't mean "pro-independence" pan-green party ignores the economic effects. They argue for developing economic relations with other countries, to reduce economic dependence on China, and thus make independence more practical.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Only the KMT believes that, while the pan greens (including the current president) do not. The KMT has always represented the mainlanders that came to Taiwan in 1949, while the other party represents the Taiwanese who revolted against the KMT from the onset. That division continues to this day.
- perennate 8y ago
  I mostly agree with you (and upvoted your comment), but I think modern KMT doesn't really believe that either, they just say they "believe it" to maintain healthy cross-strait relations. KMT values economy over opposing "one China". I would say DPP values eventual independence more, but they still recognize the economic ramifications and thus seek to develop economic relations with other countries to reduce reliance on China (but how successful this has been is debated). Anyway even DPP says they support "one China" to some degree, they're just more willing than KMT to risk supporting it to a lesser degree.
perennate 8y ago
This view of the situation is one advanced by PRC. I doubt very many Taiwanese people actually care about leading China or believe that ROC will ever become the de facto government over all of China. The only reason that Taiwan gives the perception that it supports re-unification / "one China" (part of which includes maintaining its claims over mainland China) is to maintain good political and economic relations with China. Because opposing re-unification would piss off China.
natch 8y ago
On the Taiwan side, you are mistaking lip service for conviction. The government now mostly takes that position due to threat of violence if they don’t.
CogitoCogito 8y ago
This is just confusing pedantically. It was clear the parent poster used the common shorthand of ROC = Taiwan and PRC = Chin. Change the parent posters claim to the ROC and the PRC have been independent for decades and it's totally true.