7 ms·

The terrorists are winning by just sitting back watching us do it all to ourselves.

gambiting 8y ago
The terrorist goal was never to have this happen. Terrorist(as long as we're thinking of Osama Bin Laden for example, and not say IRA) goal was to get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East. Osama Bin Laden has himself admitted that the attacks on America have failed to achieve those goals, because Americans have collectively refused to ask "why" they were being attacked - it was sold as brown people hating freedom , with no deeper context to the whole issue.
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  >get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East I get that you're paraphrasing here but that seems incredibly naive for someone who was fairly educated on foreign affairs edit: talking about Osama being naive not GP
- travisoneill1 8y ago
  > it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East This narrative again. Specifically which atrocities are you talking about? And where are all the Japanese, German, and Vietnamese terrorists attacking in revenge for the atrocities of WWII and Vietnam?
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    Of course, that narrative is a farce. But it plays on "look at how the western world is evil" and other forms of "white guilt". No wonder Stockholm Syndrome is a western thing. Sadists don't need a reason, they just need a "reasoning"
  - gambiting 8y ago
    >>Specifically which atrocities are you talking about? I don't want you to be under an impression that I agree with this reasoning - I do not. I'm just saying that you getting patted down by TSA or EU implementing restrictions on internet speech was never the terrorist goal, not even according to themselves.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ng12 8y ago
    In the Islamist POV the war is still ongoing.
  - iooi 8y ago
    Obvious disclaimer that I don't agree with their logic, but that part does bear some legitimacy. For example, read about the various Lebanese wars, and take note of the Sabra and Shatile and Qana massacres. You also have to understand that Since the US supplies almost all the arms to the IDF, the two are synonymous in their eyes.
- 13years 8y ago
  There is also some related supporting information lectures given by Profressor Robert Pape. He dives into the evidence based data supporting the actions of terrorists which is in complete contradiction to popular narratives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM
- hyperman1 8y ago
  I think you see the wrong receiver for the 'Osama' terrorist messages: The message was not intended for the general western john doe. Instead, it was a message for the average unhappy muslim. The message for them was: * The west is damaging the muslim vision of the world * We can beat them * So join our cause In some more detail: The whole world is being amerified: Culturally by Hollywood, economically by the WTO and comparable organizations, military by the American army, covert actions by CIA, by the NATO, politically . Until recently, muslim-extremist terrorism did not happen in the western world. The planes, however, hit the most powerful western country, and hit the power centers of economy (WTC), military (PENTAGON), and politics (The white house, averted). Even if the actual damage was fairly minimal for terrorism standards, the propaganda value was enormous. Join our cause was a way to tapping into forgotten muslim community. Before 9-11, muslim immigrants in non-muslim european countries were background noise. The attacks gave a way to channel, unify and organize these people. Our own news organisations told them where they could find interesting terrorism groups like ISIS. I remember how the Brussels-attackers learned Islam from a 'for dummies' book, and didnt know much of the basics. Nobody around Osama gave any care about what a non-muslim would think. Maybe some of them hoped we would cower, but that's about it. I don't think any of them suspected we might destabilize our own power and values, and would help and legitimize their organisations in the process. We gave them far more than they could hope for.
yAnonymous 8y ago
I'll never understand how turning a society into a surveillance state is the better alternative to thoroughly checking who you let into a country/region and deporting people who don't follow the law and make no effort to integrate. It was dead obvious that open borders and acceptance towards extremist ideologies would lead to more police and surveillance, yet here we are. The political left get exactly the society they don't want and it's their own fault. I could laugh about this if it wasn't so sad.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >I'll never understand how turning a society into a surveillance state is the better alternative to thoroughly checking who you let into a country/region and deporting people who don't follow the law and make no effort to integrate. You can control and observe your population and make sure they don't start finding & participating in ideas that don't fit well with the established Overton Window, and then easily deploy things like cointelpro to rid of those ideas.
- chooseaname 8y ago
  The people pushing the agenda are the big companies profiting from all this. 100's and 100's of billions of dollars to "fight terror". More people die every year from crazy white kids with guns than brown people[0] with bombs. And yet, we aren't even having the discussion about mental health issues or gun control. [0] I'm using this not to offend, but to show there's a racial aspect to this as well.
  - yAnonymous 8y ago
    Maybe in the US. We don't have many crazy white kids with guns in Europe. We do however have whole suburbs with people who don't accept the law at all, many of whom are open to the "terrorist content" the EU now wants to regulate. Companies might certainly play into this as well (and terrorists do make perfect scapegoats), but it's mainly the politicians who see that they are losing control of the justice apparatus and society as a whole, and pressure from right wing parties who will be replacing them if they don't act. Downvote me to hell. I don't give a single fuck. I pretty much predicted all of these developments to the point and got downvoted and insulted. It feels good to be right and your angry downvotes -especially from users who don't post a reply- are the icing on the cake. Have a nice day.

The terrorist goal was never to have this happen. Terrorist(as long as we're thinking of Osama Bin Laden for example, and not say IRA) goal was to get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East. Osama Bin Laden has himself admitted that the attacks on America have failed to achieve those goals, because Americans have collectively refused to ask "why" they were being attacked - it was sold as brown people hating freedom , with no deeper context to the whole issue.

creaghpatr 8y ago
>get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East I get that you're paraphrasing here but that seems incredibly naive for someone who was fairly educated on foreign affairs edit: talking about Osama being naive not GP
travisoneill1 8y ago
> it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East This narrative again. Specifically which atrocities are you talking about? And where are all the Japanese, German, and Vietnamese terrorists attacking in revenge for the atrocities of WWII and Vietnam?
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Of course, that narrative is a farce. But it plays on "look at how the western world is evil" and other forms of "white guilt". No wonder Stockholm Syndrome is a western thing. Sadists don't need a reason, they just need a "reasoning"
- gambiting 8y ago
  >>Specifically which atrocities are you talking about? I don't want you to be under an impression that I agree with this reasoning - I do not. I'm just saying that you getting patted down by TSA or EU implementing restrictions on internet speech was never the terrorist goal, not even according to themselves.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ng12 8y ago
  In the Islamist POV the war is still ongoing.
- iooi 8y ago
  Obvious disclaimer that I don't agree with their logic, but that part does bear some legitimacy. For example, read about the various Lebanese wars, and take note of the Sabra and Shatile and Qana massacres. You also have to understand that Since the US supplies almost all the arms to the IDF, the two are synonymous in their eyes.
13years 8y ago
There is also some related supporting information lectures given by Profressor Robert Pape. He dives into the evidence based data supporting the actions of terrorists which is in complete contradiction to popular narratives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM
hyperman1 8y ago
I think you see the wrong receiver for the 'Osama' terrorist messages: The message was not intended for the general western john doe. Instead, it was a message for the average unhappy muslim. The message for them was: * The west is damaging the muslim vision of the world * We can beat them * So join our cause In some more detail: The whole world is being amerified: Culturally by Hollywood, economically by the WTO and comparable organizations, military by the American army, covert actions by CIA, by the NATO, politically . Until recently, muslim-extremist terrorism did not happen in the western world. The planes, however, hit the most powerful western country, and hit the power centers of economy (WTC), military (PENTAGON), and politics (The white house, averted). Even if the actual damage was fairly minimal for terrorism standards, the propaganda value was enormous. Join our cause was a way to tapping into forgotten muslim community. Before 9-11, muslim immigrants in non-muslim european countries were background noise. The attacks gave a way to channel, unify and organize these people. Our own news organisations told them where they could find interesting terrorism groups like ISIS. I remember how the Brussels-attackers learned Islam from a 'for dummies' book, and didnt know much of the basics. Nobody around Osama gave any care about what a non-muslim would think. Maybe some of them hoped we would cower, but that's about it. I don't think any of them suspected we might destabilize our own power and values, and would help and legitimize their organisations in the process. We gave them far more than they could hope for.

yAnonymous 8y ago

I'll never understand how turning a society into a surveillance state is the better alternative to thoroughly checking who you let into a country/region and deporting people who don't follow the law and make no effort to integrate. It was dead obvious that open borders and acceptance towards extremist ideologies would lead to more police and surveillance, yet here we are. The political left get exactly the society they don't want and it's their own fault. I could laugh about this if it wasn't so sad.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
>I'll never understand how turning a society into a surveillance state is the better alternative to thoroughly checking who you let into a country/region and deporting people who don't follow the law and make no effort to integrate. You can control and observe your population and make sure they don't start finding & participating in ideas that don't fit well with the established Overton Window, and then easily deploy things like cointelpro to rid of those ideas.
chooseaname 8y ago
The people pushing the agenda are the big companies profiting from all this. 100's and 100's of billions of dollars to "fight terror". More people die every year from crazy white kids with guns than brown people[0] with bombs. And yet, we aren't even having the discussion about mental health issues or gun control. [0] I'm using this not to offend, but to show there's a racial aspect to this as well.
- yAnonymous 8y ago
  Maybe in the US. We don't have many crazy white kids with guns in Europe. We do however have whole suburbs with people who don't accept the law at all, many of whom are open to the "terrorist content" the EU now wants to regulate. Companies might certainly play into this as well (and terrorists do make perfect scapegoats), but it's mainly the politicians who see that they are losing control of the justice apparatus and society as a whole, and pressure from right wing parties who will be replacing them if they don't act. Downvote me to hell. I don't give a single fuck. I pretty much predicted all of these developments to the point and got downvoted and insulted. It feels good to be right and your angry downvotes -especially from users who don't post a reply- are the icing on the cake. Have a nice day.