8 ms·
How Teachers Came to Be So Underpaid in America
- serversystem 8y ago10 years ago it was working 2 jobs (Breaking Bad Season 1 reference).
- dschuetz 8y agoThis reminds me of the fictional character of Walter White in Breaking Bad. Best advice I can offer in such cases - leave the country. Try your luck elsewhere. Teach internationally. Get paid premium.
- swingline-747 8y agoLeaving permanently doesn't solve the underpayment problem. Striking and collective bargaining often does. It sucks but it's vital.
- dschuetz 8y agoAs a teacher? In the US? Good luck with that. At least it might solve the personal problem of working off your behind just so you get something to eat. The profession of a teacher/mentor was once one of the most respected professions that had ever existed. Now look at what is happening to education in the US. Teachers are underpaid, curricula cut and trimmed to the minimum, tuitions in private schools worth a fortune. Public schooling is in danger. How to survive that as a public school teacher? Go on strike? LOL
- darkerside 8y agoCan you be a little more specific? Before suggesting someone else uproot their life and family to find a better life elsewhere, where exactly do you suggest they go, and how will it help them? It's vastly understating it to say this is easier said than done. For the record, I think that thought experiment could illustrate that teachers in America don't have it so bad.
- swingline-747 8y agoMy stepsister and her husband are on benefits in order to make ends meet because teaching special ed in America, by the signal of pay, isn't valued enough for livable recompensation.
- kennethh 8y agoBait click heading. Nationwide, the estimated average public-school teacher’s salary is now $58,950. Not a bad salary I would say, and the salary is 20% lower than similar college degree which is not to bad considering one have more time off than other jobs (summer vacation etc). Would be more interesting if there was a lack of people wanting to work as teachers but the article didn't say anything about that.
- gadders 8y agoIf you assume they work only 8 months of the year due to holidays, pro-rata that would be $88,425.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dagw 8y agoIf you assume they work only 8 month of the year, then you probably don't know too many teachers.
- gadders 8y agoWhat do they do in the 3-4 months off each year? They're not attending their schools.
- keithpeter 8y agoThey work at home on non-contact tasks including planning coherent sequences of lessons, and 'differentiating' the approach within each lesson for lower quartile, median and upper quartile students. There may also be discrete special learning needs (e.g a deaf student who communicates exclusively by sign language and who will have an interpreter and a note taker present, a student with Asperger's, a student with type 1 diabetes and significant eyesight impairment, a student with pronounced dyslexia). Within the planning process, you often have to allow for significant changes in the syllabus content and mode of assessment. There is usually staff training provided by school management, and career progression in teaching is linked to taking on extra responsibility. Now, a very interesting question is why do we have the long summer holidays still? Lets face it, a very small proportion of the population work on farms these days. Changing that would have to be a big bang change of course. The whole system would need to move over to a new school year in one go, which is probably why no government has done it yet. I'm also, looking back on a 30 year career, beginning to wonder if a more 'industrial' approach to curriculum design might be useful. Why not simply devise a national curriculum and produce standardised lesson plans and schemes to go with it? In the UK we have the national curriculum bit but teachers are still scrabbling around for resources and activities.
- 2ion 8y agoCan't even fathom how many MSc educated people in the sciences would never, ever consider teaching due that laughable pay (even worse when converted to hourly) when compared even to the lowest-paying industry jobs. That's not how you educate a society for the 22nd century. To catch up with what is common in Western Europe, the pay needs to at least double to 80k USD and more for teachers of upper secondary classes.
- Jian-Yang 8y ago>To catch up with what is common in Western Europe, the pay needs to at least double to 80k USD and more for teachers of upper secondary classes. What do you mean by this? It seems that the USA pays very similar to what Western Europe pays their teachers (ignoring outliers)? https://www.businessinsider.com/teacher-salaries-by-country-2017-5?IR=T#elementary-school-teachers-best-and-worst-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/teacher-salaries-by-country-...
- distances 8y agoDirect comparison isn't very useful. Teacher salaries in Germany seem to be just above the US when just reading the chart, but in reality it's higher than e.g. most software developers make in Germany. Thus, gets you a lot further than in the US. You should rather compare teacher salaries to local engineer salaries, as the education is similar (assuming Master's is required).
- mattmcknight 8y agoYet almost all public schools, and union rules, fail to account for the market value of their specialities and pay the same amount for all subjects. Therefore while there is often an excess of people with degrees that have lower market value, there are shortages in advanced math, science, and foreign language.
- jorge-d 8y agoI guess this is what happen when a country spends ~8 times more in its military than in educating its people. ($574bn vs $68bn). Edit: as noted by a comment bellow, this is only the budget at the Federal Level
- GuiA 8y agoThe military is, for many, vocational training, even though you may disagree with its outcomes (I certainly do).
- consp 8y agoI do not know the numbers but dare to say with great certainty that regular vocational training is orders of magnitude more efficient and thus lower in cost than the military.
- spamizbad 8y agoThe vocational training argument is used quite a bit by military recruiters, but the reality is little of that training is valued on the job market, with a few exceptions. There are companies that do have veteran hiring preferences, but these are often social and economic justice efforts and do not take into account any actual skills.
- TulliusCicero 8y agoSource on the 68bn number? That sounds comically low. A quick googling says there's 50.7 million public school kids in the country, you're saying we only spend ~$1,300 per kid? Yeah, that's clearly wrong, you're either making that number up or are quoting the wrong number. And that's not even taking into account any university or adult education spending.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoSource on the $68 billion number is probably Wikipedia: The Department of Education is administered by the United States Secretary of Education. It has under 4,000 employees (2018)[1] and an annual budget of $68 billion (2016).¹ More info at the Education Departments website.² I don't think that's the right number though? That's just what the Education Department spends each year administering education? The FY 2019 Education Budget Fact Sheet² goes on to say: "The Budget supports $129.8 billion in new postsecondary grants, loans, and work-study assistance to help an estimated 11.5 million students and their families pay for college So there's clearly more funds being directed to education than just the $68B. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Ed... 2. https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget19/index.html https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget19/index.htm...
- loxs 8y agoThe usual development of things when government manages something. It becomes (at the same time) 1) very expensive and/or low quality for the consumer 2) Very bad for the professionals who provide it. The same thing happens over and over in every country that adopts socialism in any form (the promise that the government is the best provider of something, often "for free").
- simonh 8y agoOver here (UK) we don't see it as socialism, we just see it as good management. The consensus that we needed a national health service came after WW1 when it was found that a large section of the conscription age work force were not fit for service and were too sickly to work effectively in factories. Improving health provision became a national security issue. Also government services don't have to be costly and ineffectual. Just compare US health provision with pretty much any western European health system, inflated legal and insurance costs are crippling the US health system. I don't speak as a socialist. I'm a lifelong conservative voter. An efficient labour force that's fit for purpose needs to be healthy and well educated.
- shlepty 8y agoA pre- mass immigration consensus though.
- simonh 8y agoI don't see any change in the consensus view on education and health care in this country, as a result of immigration or even at all. The political divisions on how these services should be operated and funded have always been there, but there is no appetite to de-socialise either.
- keithpeter 8y agoUK geezer again: and reading about various things in the US, I've realised what a drag on business health benefits are. In UK, you just don't need to think about that.
- roel_v 8y ago"“I can’t tell you how many letters I got this summer that said final notice.” Cooke, who makes about $69,000, often skips doctor’s appointments to save the co-pay and worries about paying for her eldest daughter’s college education." (a bit up it says she's in Raleigh, N.C.) Not to question this woman's problems, but can someone shed some light on what the situation there is that would make a salary like that 'low income'? The median house price is 234k according to Zillow, so I would imagine rent being; what; 700 to 1000? I want to feel for these people, and I'm not claiming they are making things up; but when I see articles like this, they usually have examples that make me scratch my head a bit.
- tallanvor 8y agoShe's a single mother of two. The article doesn't say how old her children are, but if they're young enough to need child care before and after school (they may go to different schools that start at different times than Cooke, and she has work to do before and after school starts) that will add up very quickly. You also don't know anything about how much money she had to borrow to afford getting her degree (or degrees if she has a Master's). So yeah, $69k can be a low amount of money, even in places like Raleigh with lower costs of living compared to New York or SF.
- mtberatwork 8y ago> that will add up very quickly Indeed, if both of her children are in daycare programs the costs can easily exceed the amount she pays for her rent or mortgage.
- roel_v 8y agoDaughters are teenagers, there's a pic in the article. If her predicament is because of student loans she had to take out to get this job, then the problem is really 'degrees are too expensive', and not 'teachers don't make enough', right? Or are excessive (relative to income) student loans an especially big problem for teachers? The median household income in Raleigh is 55k (first Google hit). She's making almost 20% more than that. Sure, she may have a bunch of expenses that others don't, but is the story then that teachers make too little, or is the story that some people have high student loan repayments, or pay a lot in alimony, or have to help out family, or have debts from previous bad marriages or whatever? My point is: if I was a PR guy, trying to gain public support for the idea that teachers are underpaid, I wouldn't show off someone who makes 20% more than the median household income on her own. If you're looking to make a point, you find some good examples of the problem you're illustrating; not even necessarily the worst cases, but surely not someone who raises questions for even a sympathetic reader like myself. So then I wonder in this case, what else is there 'hidden' in this story we're not being told but that would change the narrative substantially?
- js8 8y agoIs there a country in the world where are the teachers paid well? I don't know of any. I suspect if there is a reason, it has nothing to do with America per se.
- badestrand 8y agoIn Germany they are paid quite well. At least older, married ones with children as those things give you bonuses. A relative of me had ~4k€ net (after taxes and healthcare) which puts you in the top 15% income earners according to a quick Google search. Not bad for teaching in some random school somewhere in the countryside. Unfortunately most German states are currently trying to lower the wages.
- darkerside 8y agoThe family bonus is a little fascinating. I imagine something like that would be met with outrage if implemented here in the states. It certainly does make sense though, as teachers with children are likely to have more experience with caring for children as well as greater need.
- lordnacho 8y agoSwitzerland. According to a young fellow I met who was planning on becoming a teacher his starting salary was going to be 120k CHF. Mind you living expenses are high there but that's probably still quite a decent figure.
- tooltalk 8y agohttps://data.oecd.org/eduresource/teachers-salaries.htm https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/teachers-salaries.htm My sister was a Jr. High School teacher in South Korea. I was quite surprised how much she was earning as a teacher and, after her retirement years ago, she is collecting now (it's only 10%-20% less than the US average which seems to support the OECD data).
- TomMarius 8y agoPrivate schools in Czechia pay their teachers very well. They're also considerably better than the ones at public schools, but a public school can't possibly afford them - I mean in general, there is not enough tax money.
- booleandilemma 8y agoIf people know they’re going to be underpaid, why do they pursue that career path? No one becomes a teacher by accident. Let’s have a shortage of teachers so that they’re forced to raise wages.
- GoMonad 8y agoHaving a long period of too few teachers could lead to large class sizes and a reduction in education quality. Those that could afford it would switch to private schools and we could end up in a feedback loop of reducing funding, worsening education and less support for public education.
- darkerside 8y agoSome would argue that's already happening
- yesenadam 8y agoIf people know they’re going to be underpaid, why do they pursue that career path? Why do people choose their job based on something other than money? To ask that is to answer it. (Hopefully)
- TomMarius 8y agoWhy do they complain if they knew beforehand and decided it doesn't bother them?
- simula67 8y agoJohn Stossel did a section on highly paid teachers in South Korea : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMPfY_YDsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMPfY_YDsE Some numbers : http://ncee.org/what-we-do/center-on-international-education-benchmarking/top-performing-countries/south-korea-overview/south-korea-teacher-and-principal-quality/ http://ncee.org/what-we-do/center-on-international-education...
- eloisant 8y agoyeah I'm not sure "celebrity teachers" is a great model either
- eloisant 8y agoWhat about teachers working in outrageous expensive private schools, are they underpaid too?
- jimhefferon 8y agoOne political factor in the US is the belief, which I have heard expressed out loud any number of times, is that if you are good you then become an entrepeneur. So if you are instead a teacher then you must not have real skills, and should not get real pay. (Not my attitude, very much not, but the reality that there are many who think that way needs to be noted.)
- scarface74 8y agoThe whole “become an entrepreneur” is mostly a Silicon Valley bubble thing. In the rest of the US, most people aren’t expected to start a business, they are expected to go to college and get a job.
- jimhefferon 8y agoI have many times heard people say, for example at events for a ham radio club I belong to, that if you are a teacher then it is because you couldn't, or wouldn't, make it in "the real world." Pointing out that teachers are highly-trained professionals who are often quite skilled, and who are an important part of what it takes to make a better future, in my experience just does not register very much.
- scarface74 8y agoThere is a huge difference between “not making it in the real world” and “starting your own business”. Not that I agree with the first sentiment either.
- RickJWagner 8y agoIt's truly a calling. My son is a junior in college, studying to become an elementary school teacher. I've talked to him several times about likely future earning prospects, he's well aware. I have the highest admiration for true teachers.