8 ms·

Privatized law enforcement with a financial incentive to “find crimes”? What could go wrong?

by koolba 8y ago

duxup 8y ago
One of my first jobs had a client who ran speed cameras for a state. On top of nothing being secure the guys there said to me that the amount of "traffic" always seemed to increase, I felt dirty just talking to them. One dude I ran into later at another company said he started looking for a new job as soon as he figured out their game. The company got in trouble supposedly due to anonymous tipsters who knew some inside info to some news stations (for the record no it wasn't me, I didn't have anything). At least some folks made good choices.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  What do you mean by traffic always increasing? Im not really following what you are saying...
  - johnchristopher 8y ago
    I believe parent implies that with the increase of traffic naturally comes more speeding infractions that are then reported by those guy. I suppose they get a cut for each ticket so it's in their interest to "notice" an increase of traffic. Or to make it up.
  - duxup 8y ago
    I was involved in some networking so we were talking about how much traffic there was. The "traffic" was directly proportional to the number of tickets and processing them... traffic up, # of tickets up.
really3452 8y ago
I got towed in Minneapolis on a Sunday because the Wisconsin DMV put a flag in the computer system for my license plate. The flag was to remind the Wisconsin DMV to make sure my address was updated next time I came in. The towing company refused to release my car until I was able to get the Wisconsin DMV on the phone with them (Monday afternoon) to verify that my registration was paid up (it was) and I still had to pay the impounding fee (~$200) and had to take 8 hours of vacation because I couldn't drive home Sunday night like I had planned and thus couldn't go to work on Monday. That is what privatization of law enforcement with a financial incentive to “find crimes” leads to.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  > and I still had to pay the impounding fee (~$200) Is that even legal?
  - tptacek 8y ago
    San Francisco towed my car and then lost it for 3 months. I called repeatedly and they insisted they didn't have it, and that I file a police report for it having been stolen. I got another car to replace it. 3 months later, Erin found it, while taking a walk past the impound lot on Harrison. They made her pay all 3 months of impound fees.
    - mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
      That's so frustrating!! Sorry you had to go through that :( There should be an easy way to dispute that sort of thing that doesn't require you to take a day off work. There seems to be a lack of checks and balances in US that leads to all sorts of bs scenarios. It's one of the reasons I don't miss the country.
      - tptacek 8y ago
        It turns out to be very difficult to sue a municipality. They need to be on the hook for a lot more than towing fees to make it cost effective.
    - kurthr 8y ago
      Wow, that's $6500.
    - blackguardx 8y ago
      I had my car stolen in San Francisco and had to pay to get it out. The city contracts out towing services and the contract doesn't say they can't charge for stolen cars, so... The city made an effort to change this a few years back but stopped when they realized that they would have to pay the towing company a bunch of money from loss of revenue with the modified contract.
dredmorbius 8y ago
There's history here. Note: sheriffs of London paid 300 £s per year, hoping to make a profit from the fines they collected. A labourer's annual wages at the time were 2 £/yr. A master carpenter might earn 20-40 £/yr, depending on days worked. A kitchen servant, 2 - 4 shillings/yr. In: "List of price of medieval items" http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html
- ubernostrum 8y ago
  In ancient Rome, the right to collect taxes in some provinces was contracted out. If you won the contract, you had to provide Rome with at least the amount you bid for the contract, but anything you could manage to collect beyond that was yours to keep. And if people failed to pay their taxes to you, you often had the right to enslave them in order to collect.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    Do you have any (quick, readily accessible) references on this? Thanks.
    - ubernostrum 8y ago
      Wikipedia is a decent starting place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican
  - cdoxsey 8y ago
    Hence why they were so despised at the time of the New Testament. If anyone is interested in some of the roman dynamics of the time I highly recommend Paul Maier's historical fiction on Pontius Pilate: https://www.amazon.com/Pontius-Pilate-Paul-L-Maier/dp/0825443563 https://www.amazon.com/Pontius-Pilate-Paul-L-Maier/dp/082544.... (his book on Nero is great too)
  - telchar 8y ago
    Further, to progress beyond quaestor (tax collector) in Roman politics a politician had to put on public games and such to win popularity (as an aedile). Where did those funds come from? Yep, excess taxes collected. It's not unlike winning friends and donors for campaign funds by playing nice with wealthy special interests as a modern politician in order to progress up the ladder to national office and then continue to win re-election.

Privatized law enforcement with a financial incentive to “find crimes”? What could go wrong?

by koolba 8y ago

Privatized law enforcement with a financial incentive to “find crimes”? What could go wrong?

One of my first jobs had a client who ran speed cameras for a state. On top of nothing being secure the guys there said to me that the amount of "traffic" always seemed to increase, I felt dirty just talking to them. One dude I ran into later at another company said he started looking for a new job as soon as he figured out their game. The company got in trouble supposedly due to anonymous tipsters who knew some inside info to some news stations (for the record no it wasn't me, I didn't have anything). At least some folks made good choices.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
What do you mean by traffic always increasing? Im not really following what you are saying...
- johnchristopher 8y ago
  I believe parent implies that with the increase of traffic naturally comes more speeding infractions that are then reported by those guy. I suppose they get a cut for each ticket so it's in their interest to "notice" an increase of traffic. Or to make it up.
- duxup 8y ago
  I was involved in some networking so we were talking about how much traffic there was. The "traffic" was directly proportional to the number of tickets and processing them... traffic up, # of tickets up.

really3452 8y ago

I got towed in Minneapolis on a Sunday because the Wisconsin DMV put a flag in the computer system for my license plate. The flag was to remind the Wisconsin DMV to make sure my address was updated next time I came in. The towing company refused to release my car until I was able to get the Wisconsin DMV on the phone with them (Monday afternoon) to verify that my registration was paid up (it was) and I still had to pay the impounding fee (~$200) and had to take 8 hours of vacation because I couldn't drive home Sunday night like I had planned and thus couldn't go to work on Monday. That is what privatization of law enforcement with a financial incentive to “find crimes” leads to.

crooked-v 8y ago
> and I still had to pay the impounding fee (~$200) Is that even legal?
- tptacek 8y ago
  San Francisco towed my car and then lost it for 3 months. I called repeatedly and they insisted they didn't have it, and that I file a police report for it having been stolen. I got another car to replace it. 3 months later, Erin found it, while taking a walk past the impound lot on Harrison. They made her pay all 3 months of impound fees.
  - mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
    That's so frustrating!! Sorry you had to go through that :( There should be an easy way to dispute that sort of thing that doesn't require you to take a day off work. There seems to be a lack of checks and balances in US that leads to all sorts of bs scenarios. It's one of the reasons I don't miss the country.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      It turns out to be very difficult to sue a municipality. They need to be on the hook for a lot more than towing fees to make it cost effective.
  - kurthr 8y ago
    Wow, that's $6500.
  - blackguardx 8y ago
    I had my car stolen in San Francisco and had to pay to get it out. The city contracts out towing services and the contract doesn't say they can't charge for stolen cars, so... The city made an effort to change this a few years back but stopped when they realized that they would have to pay the towing company a bunch of money from loss of revenue with the modified contract.

dredmorbius 8y ago

There's history here. Note: sheriffs of London paid 300 £s per year, hoping to make a profit from the fines they collected. A labourer's annual wages at the time were 2 £/yr. A master carpenter might earn 20-40 £/yr, depending on days worked. A kitchen servant, 2 - 4 shillings/yr. In: "List of price of medieval items" http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html

ubernostrum 8y ago
In ancient Rome, the right to collect taxes in some provinces was contracted out. If you won the contract, you had to provide Rome with at least the amount you bid for the contract, but anything you could manage to collect beyond that was yours to keep. And if people failed to pay their taxes to you, you often had the right to enslave them in order to collect.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Do you have any (quick, readily accessible) references on this? Thanks.
  - ubernostrum 8y ago
    Wikipedia is a decent starting place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican
- cdoxsey 8y ago
  Hence why they were so despised at the time of the New Testament. If anyone is interested in some of the roman dynamics of the time I highly recommend Paul Maier's historical fiction on Pontius Pilate: https://www.amazon.com/Pontius-Pilate-Paul-L-Maier/dp/0825443563 https://www.amazon.com/Pontius-Pilate-Paul-L-Maier/dp/082544.... (his book on Nero is great too)
- telchar 8y ago
  Further, to progress beyond quaestor (tax collector) in Roman politics a politician had to put on public games and such to win popularity (as an aedile). Where did those funds come from? Yep, excess taxes collected. It's not unlike winning friends and donors for campaign funds by playing nice with wealthy special interests as a modern politician in order to progress up the ladder to national office and then continue to win re-election.