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How is Amazon creating more homeless people?

emodendroket 8y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/how-amazon-helped-kill-a-seattle-tax-on-business/562736/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/how-a... In case you don't care to read an article they're just coming off an effort to kill a tax that would have affected them and which was specifically designed to combat homelessness.
olivermarks 8y ago
By centralizing giant swathes of the consumption economy to run through Amazon, destroying jobs at every step of the way. Sweden have banned Amazon so their local economies can flourish. I think this is good macro business logic for a nation state. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-amazon-competition-ecommerce/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-amazon-competition-ec...
- Aunche 8y ago
  So Amazon gets credit for killing jobs, but no credit for creating jobs? Without a doubt Ikea has killed the small time furniture making industry, yet is listed as a "charity."
- chillacy 8y ago
  My own company has been slowly getting killed by amazon in the past 10 years, but we’ve also killed countless brick and mortar stores along the way. Where will we draw the line? Are we to fight the newfound efficiencies of technologies like the Luddites?
- opencl 8y ago
  Sweden did not ban Amazon. Amazon just doesn't operate in Sweden (yet). People in Sweden can already buy things from the other EU Amazon stores.
  - olivermarks 8y ago
    I'm not sure that's accurate, I think there has been considerable political and therefore bureaucratic opposition to Amazon in Sweden
lev99 8y ago
Increasing home prices in Seattle, where the median rent is $2,400 [0]. By bringing in people from out of state with high salaries Amazon is making the housing market in Seattle much more expensive as more people compete for a mostly static stock of housing. Zoning laws, mandatory parking, improved public transportation, affordable housing regulations, and new development could all improve the current situation so local and state governments play a role, but it would be naive to assume the largest private employer in the region didn't play a role in creating the current situation either. [0] https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/home-values/
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Might be hard to do all those things you're proposing when Amazon has tremendous resources to mobilize against any proposed tax.
- corysama 8y ago
  :/ The math you are presenting is “One family gets a large raise. Another gets a slightly harder time finding affordable housing”. Multiply that by a large number and you get a large number of families cannot find affordable housing. But, a similar number got large raises. It’s not a universal win, but it’s still a net win. It’s not even a horribly skewed distribution. If I could make a genie wish, it would be that there was a bunch of luxury condo&apt construction for the new residents so that none of the old residents would have any pressure to move. But, I can’t blame the lack of construction on Amazon.
  - jakelazaroff 8y ago
    How is increasing inequality a net win? The situation you've presented is even somewhat zero-sum, i.e. the first family's gain comes at the expense of the second. That's exactly what we should be trying to prevent.
    - corysama 8y ago
      It's not zero sum. One family makes more than before. The other makes the same as before. Net win. The extra money in the pocket of the first family is not coming out of the pocket of the second. It's coming out of Amazon's pocket. The alternative is that no one gets raises. That's would be loss for a large number of families and no change for others.
songzme 8y ago
X used to own a bookstore. It was good enough to put him in middle class. Then the culture changed, it was easier for people to read reviews online and buy, than to shop in book stores. His shop has to close down, now he drives for Uber and tries to make ends meet. He is no longer in middle class. Not homeless, but I'd imagine if there are more competition for unskilled labor, more people would be squeezed into homelessness
cgag 8y ago
succeeding too much by being to useful and employing too many people, and failing to respect modern cities inability to grow
djsumdog 8y ago
Look at their home in Seattle. The influx of people is pushing up housing prices to pretty unbearable levels. It's not as bad as the Bay Area, but the homeless situation there has been bad for a long time. The large Seattle companies also work in discount deals for housing, which is far from ethical or fair: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/is-it-housing-bias-when-seattle-landlords-cater-to-preferred-employees/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/is-it-hou... People are critical because Amazon has rarely given to charity, or when they do it's something like letting a charity temporally use an existing building before they renovate it: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amazons-donating-a-building-to-temporarily-house-homeless-in-seattle_us_57111e8be4b0018f9cb9ea8e https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amazons-donating-a-buil... I mean, maybe we shouldn't be so critical if Bezos is legitimately concerned and they're doing something, but I can understand why people are skeptical based on their track record.
- skufuor 8y ago
  And they're planning on permanently giving them space in one of the new office buildings. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-creating-a-place-for-hundreds-of-homeless-on-its-shiny-new-seattle-campus/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-creating... Disclosure: i work at Amazon.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/how-amazon-helped-kill-a-seattle-tax-on-business/562736/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/how-a... In case you don't care to read an article they're just coming off an effort to kill a tax that would have affected them and which was specifically designed to combat homelessness.

olivermarks 8y ago

By centralizing giant swathes of the consumption economy to run through Amazon, destroying jobs at every step of the way. Sweden have banned Amazon so their local economies can flourish. I think this is good macro business logic for a nation state. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-amazon-competition-ecommerce/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-amazon-competition-ec...

Aunche 8y ago
So Amazon gets credit for killing jobs, but no credit for creating jobs? Without a doubt Ikea has killed the small time furniture making industry, yet is listed as a "charity."
chillacy 8y ago
My own company has been slowly getting killed by amazon in the past 10 years, but we’ve also killed countless brick and mortar stores along the way. Where will we draw the line? Are we to fight the newfound efficiencies of technologies like the Luddites?
opencl 8y ago
Sweden did not ban Amazon. Amazon just doesn't operate in Sweden (yet). People in Sweden can already buy things from the other EU Amazon stores.
- olivermarks 8y ago
  I'm not sure that's accurate, I think there has been considerable political and therefore bureaucratic opposition to Amazon in Sweden

lev99 8y ago

Increasing home prices in Seattle, where the median rent is $2,400 [0]. By bringing in people from out of state with high salaries Amazon is making the housing market in Seattle much more expensive as more people compete for a mostly static stock of housing. Zoning laws, mandatory parking, improved public transportation, affordable housing regulations, and new development could all improve the current situation so local and state governments play a role, but it would be naive to assume the largest private employer in the region didn't play a role in creating the current situation either. [0] https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/seattle-wa/home-values/

emodendroket 8y ago
Might be hard to do all those things you're proposing when Amazon has tremendous resources to mobilize against any proposed tax.
corysama 8y ago
:/ The math you are presenting is “One family gets a large raise. Another gets a slightly harder time finding affordable housing”. Multiply that by a large number and you get a large number of families cannot find affordable housing. But, a similar number got large raises. It’s not a universal win, but it’s still a net win. It’s not even a horribly skewed distribution. If I could make a genie wish, it would be that there was a bunch of luxury condo&apt construction for the new residents so that none of the old residents would have any pressure to move. But, I can’t blame the lack of construction on Amazon.
- jakelazaroff 8y ago
  How is increasing inequality a net win? The situation you've presented is even somewhat zero-sum, i.e. the first family's gain comes at the expense of the second. That's exactly what we should be trying to prevent.
  - corysama 8y ago
    It's not zero sum. One family makes more than before. The other makes the same as before. Net win. The extra money in the pocket of the first family is not coming out of the pocket of the second. It's coming out of Amazon's pocket. The alternative is that no one gets raises. That's would be loss for a large number of families and no change for others.

songzme 8y ago

X used to own a bookstore. It was good enough to put him in middle class. Then the culture changed, it was easier for people to read reviews online and buy, than to shop in book stores. His shop has to close down, now he drives for Uber and tries to make ends meet. He is no longer in middle class. Not homeless, but I'd imagine if there are more competition for unskilled labor, more people would be squeezed into homelessness

cgag 8y ago

succeeding too much by being to useful and employing too many people, and failing to respect modern cities inability to grow

djsumdog 8y ago

Look at their home in Seattle. The influx of people is pushing up housing prices to pretty unbearable levels. It's not as bad as the Bay Area, but the homeless situation there has been bad for a long time. The large Seattle companies also work in discount deals for housing, which is far from ethical or fair: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/is-it-housing-bias-when-seattle-landlords-cater-to-preferred-employees/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/is-it-hou... People are critical because Amazon has rarely given to charity, or when they do it's something like letting a charity temporally use an existing building before they renovate it: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amazons-donating-a-building-to-temporarily-house-homeless-in-seattle_us_57111e8be4b0018f9cb9ea8e https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amazons-donating-a-buil... I mean, maybe we shouldn't be so critical if Bezos is legitimately concerned and they're doing something, but I can understand why people are skeptical based on their track record.

skufuor 8y ago
And they're planning on permanently giving them space in one of the new office buildings. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-creating-a-place-for-hundreds-of-homeless-on-its-shiny-new-seattle-campus/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-creating... Disclosure: i work at Amazon.