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Thus reinforcing Tesla's dominance. Until other manufacturers can match Tesla's price/range combination, Tesla will continue to dominate the market.

specialp 8y ago
We can perhaps say that when they are actually making batteries at $100/kWh. We could have said they were going to dominate in EV production in 2016 when they said they were going to manufacture 200k cars in the second half of 2017, and 500k cars by this year. So analysis and comparison of projections from a company that has a history of wildly underdelivering isn't sound.
- imglorp 8y ago
  In absolute terms, they're delivering 8x more full electrics than the Bolt, the next leading full electric, and still more than the 2 leading plugin hybrids. The market will never be happy with winning, it has to be winning by the desired margin. https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
  - foepys 8y ago
    Isn't Tesla still losing money on each produced car? If they are, they are just increasing their losses with higher production volume. At least the base Model 3 isn't profitable, which is why it isn't being sold at the moment.
    - imglorp 8y ago
      Maybe, but if you want to change the world, is stock price the only metric? How profitable is Twitter?
compcoffee 8y ago
>Until other manufacturers can match Tesla's price/range combination I guess you're right, because the competitors are just starting to roll out now...
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Ford is deprecating sedan manufacturing and only building trucks. Chrysler Fiat appears to be parting itself out. Volkswagen? I wouldn't buy a vehicle from them ever after their emissions scandal. Mercedes and BMW? Having owned both, I know what their out of warranty service costs are. GM has a shot based on their history of the Volt and the Bolt. Toyota? They were relying on Tesla for their EV drivetrains most recently, and still haven't given up the hydrogen boondoggle. This is before we even start discussing how legacy auto manufacturers are going to scale EV production up without their own battery cell/pack manufacturing (relying on OEMs instead). I don't see any non-Chinese automaker besides Tesla and possibly GM taking EVs seriously.
  - djrogers 8y ago
    > Ford is deprecating sedan manufacturing and only building trucks Not really accurate- they’re still making the mustang, crossovers, and SUVs too.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Crossovers and SUVs are essentially trucks for fuel economy and emissions regulations purposes.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Why is a Tesla going to cost less to service out of warranty than a BMW or Mercedes electric?
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      [removed]
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        I was asking about hypothetical electric competitors there, that's what the 'electric' at the end is there for.
skykooler 8y ago
I wonder whether Tesla will go into the market supplying batteries to other manufacturers? Such a price point would give them a huge advantage in that market.
- WhompingWindows 8y ago
  Given their plans to expand their auto manufacturing with new factories in the EU and China, and their growing ambitions to create stationary energy storage for renewable generation, I'd say they won't be selling their automotive batteries anytime soon. I think it more likely they sell their electric power train, which they have done in the past.
  - GW150914 8y ago
    Doesn’t Panasonic make their batteries? To what extent can Panasonic decide to sell the batteries without dealing with Tesla?
    - Retric 8y ago
      > Panasonic make their batteries No, they are a partner and have put up a significant fraction of the capital for the plant though.
      - GW150914 8y ago
        Right, but as I was under the impression that the actual 18650 Cells are made by Panasonic in Japan.
        stetrain 8y ago
        My understanding is that the article is referring to the new 2170 Cells (used in Model 3) which are produced at the Panasonic/Tesla partner Gigafactory in Nevada. Even for the cells produced in Japan if they are using IP owned by Tesla in their construction or chemistry they could still have a say in who Panasonic sells them to.

specialp 8y ago

We can perhaps say that when they are actually making batteries at $100/kWh. We could have said they were going to dominate in EV production in 2016 when they said they were going to manufacture 200k cars in the second half of 2017, and 500k cars by this year. So analysis and comparison of projections from a company that has a history of wildly underdelivering isn't sound.

imglorp 8y ago
In absolute terms, they're delivering 8x more full electrics than the Bolt, the next leading full electric, and still more than the 2 leading plugin hybrids. The market will never be happy with winning, it has to be winning by the desired margin. https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
- foepys 8y ago
  Isn't Tesla still losing money on each produced car? If they are, they are just increasing their losses with higher production volume. At least the base Model 3 isn't profitable, which is why it isn't being sold at the moment.
  - imglorp 8y ago
    Maybe, but if you want to change the world, is stock price the only metric? How profitable is Twitter?

compcoffee 8y ago

>Until other manufacturers can match Tesla's price/range combination I guess you're right, because the competitors are just starting to roll out now...

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Ford is deprecating sedan manufacturing and only building trucks. Chrysler Fiat appears to be parting itself out. Volkswagen? I wouldn't buy a vehicle from them ever after their emissions scandal. Mercedes and BMW? Having owned both, I know what their out of warranty service costs are. GM has a shot based on their history of the Volt and the Bolt. Toyota? They were relying on Tesla for their EV drivetrains most recently, and still haven't given up the hydrogen boondoggle. This is before we even start discussing how legacy auto manufacturers are going to scale EV production up without their own battery cell/pack manufacturing (relying on OEMs instead). I don't see any non-Chinese automaker besides Tesla and possibly GM taking EVs seriously.
- djrogers 8y ago
  > Ford is deprecating sedan manufacturing and only building trucks Not really accurate- they’re still making the mustang, crossovers, and SUVs too.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Crossovers and SUVs are essentially trucks for fuel economy and emissions regulations purposes.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Why is a Tesla going to cost less to service out of warranty than a BMW or Mercedes electric?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    [removed]
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      I was asking about hypothetical electric competitors there, that's what the 'electric' at the end is there for.

skykooler 8y ago

I wonder whether Tesla will go into the market supplying batteries to other manufacturers? Such a price point would give them a huge advantage in that market.

WhompingWindows 8y ago
Given their plans to expand their auto manufacturing with new factories in the EU and China, and their growing ambitions to create stationary energy storage for renewable generation, I'd say they won't be selling their automotive batteries anytime soon. I think it more likely they sell their electric power train, which they have done in the past.
- GW150914 8y ago
  Doesn’t Panasonic make their batteries? To what extent can Panasonic decide to sell the batteries without dealing with Tesla?
  - Retric 8y ago
    > Panasonic make their batteries No, they are a partner and have put up a significant fraction of the capital for the plant though.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      Right, but as I was under the impression that the actual 18650 Cells are made by Panasonic in Japan.
      - stetrain 8y ago
        My understanding is that the article is referring to the new 2170 Cells (used in Model 3) which are produced at the Panasonic/Tesla partner Gigafactory in Nevada. Even for the cells produced in Japan if they are using IP owned by Tesla in their construction or chemistry they could still have a say in who Panasonic sells them to.