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Hi, Can you elaborate on your desire to leave the EU(/EZ) altogether? From the data I've seen, an increasing number of Americans are actually leaving the U.S a

Hi, Can you elaborate on your desire to leave the EU(/EZ) altogether? From the data I've seen, an increasing number of Americans are actually leaving the U.S and/or giving up citizenship. The reasons seem to range from tax policy to cost of living/quality of living to 'other'. In aggregate, the economy may look good, but for many individuals things are actually pretty tough. Even those who aren't all that affected by such problems (think journalist writing uber-positive stories about America's "robust economy", politicians, banking officials, etc.,) will acknowledge this albeit mostly in private settings. Anyway, rather than leave, wouldn't it just be easier to employ some sort of strategic corporate structuring?

adventured 8y ago
Most of your post focuses on attacking the US, rather than actually answering the parent's question. I understand why you and others in this thread are choosing to do that, however it's still inappropriate. > From the data I've seen, an increasing number of Americans are actually leaving the U.S and/or giving up citizenship. 2017: "Renunciations [of citizenship] for the year fell 5.1 percent, to 5,133" So far in 2018, that is down another 8% to 10% on an annualized basis. While the number has climbed over the years, out of ~245 million adults, a mere 5,133 renounced their citizenship last year. A rate near one in 50,000. In a city the size of San Francisco, 17 people will renounce their citizenship in a given year. A trivial figure. > In aggregate, the economy may look good, but for many individuals things are actually pretty tough. > will acknowledge this albeit mostly in private settings. That's an entirely empty claim. You didn't actually say anything or provide figures. The US economy is in fact every bit as robust as it appears to be. Manufacturing is booming like it hasn't in decades, with persistent employment gains that haven't been seen in 25 years. Wage growth is at a decade high and heading higher. - The median personal and household incomes are both at new all-time highs on an inflation adjusted basis. - US household balance sheets are in great shape. Debt service payments as a share of disposable income remain near 40 year lows. The household debt to income ratio is back to pre housing bubble levels, roughly 2003 levels. US households considerably deleveraged, while most other wealthy developed nations have done the exact opposite. - The U6 unemployment rate is below where it was in 1999 (and far lower than eg 1997), and nearly matches the lowest figure put in during that economic boom. It's still heading lower yet. - Business investment is booming. The percentage of businesses planning to invest into expansion is scoring at multi-decade highs. S&P 500 capex spending has also jumped dramatically. - Productivity grew at a solid 2.9% in the second quarter. The fastest rate in three years. You need good productivity figures to sustain wage expansion. - Consumer confidence is near 20 year highs. It was last this high during the peak of the late 1990s boom. - Small business confidence is at multi-decade highs. - Jobless claims are near 50 year lows. You have to go back to 1969 to see these absolute jobless claims figures - the US population was 1/3 smaller then. - The number of people without health insurance is at record lows. Homelessness is at/near record lows. The poverty rate is at a low level only reached during two brief periods in the last 60 years. - The gap between the number of jobs available vs the number of people actively seeking a job is at a positive multi-decade high and increasing. - GDP growth will clock in over 3% in 2018 for the first time (on an annual basis) since 2005. - Corporate profits for all business sizes are at all-time highs. - The stock market is at all-time highs. - Household wealth is at an all-time record high. 100% higher than 2004, at $101 trillion. The US median household net wealth figure, despite taking a hit in the great recession, is still higher than in either Sweden or Germany. - The best forecasters, people like Ray Dalio (whose firm spotted the great recession far earlier than most), see several more years of expansion left in the tank yet.
- jsoc815 8y ago
  Dear adventured: I believe I asked the parent a pair of clarifying questions. I'm not sure why you view mentioning that there are those who also decide to leave the parent's (possible) target destination as "attacking the US," but okay(?) Re: and 'my' "empty claim" and your statistical screed-- 1) I noticed you excised my source 'references', which is fine, I guess; 2; your list doesn't actually address the crux of the claim; 3) I think it helpful to think about how the stats are derived and what they actually measure; 4) here's a recent article from "the failing New York Times" on some of those stats you provided [1]; 5) and another on the "recovery"[2], most of the commenters don't appear to share your sanguineness, but they're probably Russian bots or something; 6) I remind you that the stock market is neither the economy nor directly relevant to much of the US population; 7) you're probably right about GDP growth [FTR, I was one of few who argued, to seasoned economists, that Trump's targets were easily doable when they steadfastly argued otherwise], but I refer you back to article [1]; 8) having already addressed your "renunciation" data in an unrelated HN post, I won't do it again; finally, 9) your econ stats are, pretty much, about the aggregate, which in my initial post, I acknowledged "look good"; 10) even if everything that you've stated is absolutely correct, it doesn't explain, for me, why the OP wants to take such a drastic step, which was what my post was actually about*. All the best... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/opinion/columnists/great-recession-economy-gdp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/opinion/columnists/great-... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-financial-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-fin...

adventured 8y ago

Most of your post focuses on attacking the US, rather than actually answering the parent's question. I understand why you and others in this thread are choosing to do that, however it's still inappropriate. > From the data I've seen, an increasing number of Americans are actually leaving the U.S and/or giving up citizenship. 2017: "Renunciations [of citizenship] for the year fell 5.1 percent, to 5,133" So far in 2018, that is down another 8% to 10% on an annualized basis. While the number has climbed over the years, out of ~245 million adults, a mere 5,133 renounced their citizenship last year. A rate near one in 50,000. In a city the size of San Francisco, 17 people will renounce their citizenship in a given year. A trivial figure. > In aggregate, the economy may look good, but for many individuals things are actually pretty tough. > will acknowledge this albeit mostly in private settings. That's an entirely empty claim. You didn't actually say anything or provide figures. The US economy is in fact every bit as robust as it appears to be. Manufacturing is booming like it hasn't in decades, with persistent employment gains that haven't been seen in 25 years. Wage growth is at a decade high and heading higher. - The median personal and household incomes are both at new all-time highs on an inflation adjusted basis. - US household balance sheets are in great shape. Debt service payments as a share of disposable income remain near 40 year lows. The household debt to income ratio is back to pre housing bubble levels, roughly 2003 levels. US households considerably deleveraged, while most other wealthy developed nations have done the exact opposite. - The U6 unemployment rate is below where it was in 1999 (and far lower than eg 1997), and nearly matches the lowest figure put in during that economic boom. It's still heading lower yet. - Business investment is booming. The percentage of businesses planning to invest into expansion is scoring at multi-decade highs. S&P 500 capex spending has also jumped dramatically. - Productivity grew at a solid 2.9% in the second quarter. The fastest rate in three years. You need good productivity figures to sustain wage expansion. - Consumer confidence is near 20 year highs. It was last this high during the peak of the late 1990s boom. - Small business confidence is at multi-decade highs. - Jobless claims are near 50 year lows. You have to go back to 1969 to see these absolute jobless claims figures - the US population was 1/3 smaller then. - The number of people without health insurance is at record lows. Homelessness is at/near record lows. The poverty rate is at a low level only reached during two brief periods in the last 60 years. - The gap between the number of jobs available vs the number of people actively seeking a job is at a positive multi-decade high and increasing. - GDP growth will clock in over 3% in 2018 for the first time (on an annual basis) since 2005. - Corporate profits for all business sizes are at all-time highs. - The stock market is at all-time highs. - Household wealth is at an all-time record high. 100% higher than 2004, at $101 trillion. The US median household net wealth figure, despite taking a hit in the great recession, is still higher than in either Sweden or Germany. - The best forecasters, people like Ray Dalio (whose firm spotted the great recession far earlier than most), see several more years of expansion left in the tank yet.

jsoc815 8y ago
Dear adventured: I believe I asked the parent a pair of clarifying questions. I'm not sure why you view mentioning that there are those who also decide to leave the parent's (possible) target destination as "attacking the US," but okay(?) Re: and 'my' "empty claim" and your statistical screed-- 1) I noticed you excised my source 'references', which is fine, I guess; 2; your list doesn't actually address the crux of the claim; 3) I think it helpful to think about how the stats are derived and what they actually measure; 4) here's a recent article from "the failing New York Times" on some of those stats you provided [1]; 5) and another on the "recovery"[2], most of the commenters don't appear to share your sanguineness, but they're probably Russian bots or something; 6) I remind you that the stock market is neither the economy nor directly relevant to much of the US population; 7) you're probably right about GDP growth [FTR, I was one of few who argued, to seasoned economists, that Trump's targets were easily doable when they steadfastly argued otherwise], but I refer you back to article [1]; 8) having already addressed your "renunciation" data in an unrelated HN post, I won't do it again; finally, 9) your econ stats are, pretty much, about the aggregate, which in my initial post, I acknowledged "look good"; 10) even if everything that you've stated is absolutely correct, it doesn't explain, for me, why the OP wants to take such a drastic step, which was what my post was actually about*. All the best... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/opinion/columnists/great-recession-economy-gdp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/opinion/columnists/great-... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-financial-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-fin...