4 ms·

Voter ID disenfranchises the poor, otherwise I don't think anyone would have an issue with voter id requirements.

by kss238 8y ago

Aeolun 8y ago
So make ID’s free, and then require voter ID :/ seems the solution is right there. I have a hard time imagining the US can’t bear the cost of printing a few hundred million ID’s.
- SeanLuke 8y ago
  It's not cost. The US has a long tradition of viewing required national identification documents as a violation of individual liberties.
briandear 8y ago
But voter fraud disenfranchises everyone. Every single state has free ID programs. We have campaigns to help people get food stamps (which incidentally require ID,) but we can’t have similar programs to ensure everyone has ID? The idea that we can’t get ID for the poor is just ridiculous. Even illegal immigrants in California can get drivers licenses and they are far more marginalized than poor American citizens in terms of access to services. https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-voter-id-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-vote...
- techsupporter 8y ago
  If you can reliably ensure that every single citizen who is entitled to get an ID can do so with no impediments at all in all fifty states, every territory of the United States, and the District of Columbia, without cost or delay, then fine. As it stands, no one can ensure that. Getting a birth certificate, often a requirement for a "free ID," costs money, time, and administrative overhead. Sometimes it is virtually impossible for someone who was born in an "uncommon" way. Showing up in person, almost always a requirement for a "free ID," costs money, time, and logistical overhead. There are several states who oh-so-conveniently place enrollment centers for these IDs juuuuust outside the convenient reach of population centers whose citizens are more-likely-than-not to vote in the way that the incumbent politicians would prefer. Or the state pleads austerity and closes so many facilities that the wait just to enter one to request an ID is many hours. Or the delay in manufacturing the ID reaches near-infinity around common voting deadlines. And then you have the asinine lists of acceptable IDs. For several years, for example, Texas would not accept a student ID issued by a public college but would accept an expired law enforcement commission card issued by any city or county in the state. So someone may, inaccurately as it turns out, believe he or she has a "government-issued ID" when he or she actually doesn't have one that's acceptable for voting. And then you get into all of the other myriad edge cases that should not disqualify someone from acting as a citizen. Married women who changed their names. Married men who changed their names (because a man changing his name is "suspect"). Children who were adopted but still have old paperwork. Voter fraud is not a sufficiently large problem that it needs to be solved by throwing a 200-pound anvil of paperwork at preventing it. And it's not good enough to say that "most" people have a driver license or state ID or passport or something like that. Every citizen should be entitled to vote.
- SeanLuke 8y ago
  > But voter fraud disenfranchises everyone. What voter fraud are you referring to? The type of voter fraud that IDs would counter is "in-person" voter fraud. The amount of in-person voter fraud in the United States is extraordinarily miniscule, effectively zero. When states pass laws which intrude on liberties, they are generally required to justify those laws with "compelling interest". With near-zero in-person voter fraud there is no compelling interest on part of the state for voter ID programs. In 2016 North Carolina had one documented example of in-person voter fraud out of 4.8 million voters. But the state still requires voter ID to counter "voter fraud". This is absurd on the face of it -- it's transparently obvious that North Carolina republicans (among others) are seeking voter ID as a mechanism for suppressing the vote among various disadvantaged groups.

Voter ID disenfranchises the poor, otherwise I don't think anyone would have an issue with voter id requirements.

by kss238 8y ago

Voter ID disenfranchises the poor, otherwise I don't think anyone would have an issue with voter id requirements.

So make ID’s free, and then require voter ID :/ seems the solution is right there. I have a hard time imagining the US can’t bear the cost of printing a few hundred million ID’s.

SeanLuke 8y ago
It's not cost. The US has a long tradition of viewing required national identification documents as a violation of individual liberties.

briandear 8y ago

But voter fraud disenfranchises everyone. Every single state has free ID programs. We have campaigns to help people get food stamps (which incidentally require ID,) but we can’t have similar programs to ensure everyone has ID? The idea that we can’t get ID for the poor is just ridiculous. Even illegal immigrants in California can get drivers licenses and they are far more marginalized than poor American citizens in terms of access to services. https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-voter-id-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/15/14909764/study-vote...

techsupporter 8y ago
If you can reliably ensure that every single citizen who is entitled to get an ID can do so with no impediments at all in all fifty states, every territory of the United States, and the District of Columbia, without cost or delay, then fine. As it stands, no one can ensure that. Getting a birth certificate, often a requirement for a "free ID," costs money, time, and administrative overhead. Sometimes it is virtually impossible for someone who was born in an "uncommon" way. Showing up in person, almost always a requirement for a "free ID," costs money, time, and logistical overhead. There are several states who oh-so-conveniently place enrollment centers for these IDs juuuuust outside the convenient reach of population centers whose citizens are more-likely-than-not to vote in the way that the incumbent politicians would prefer. Or the state pleads austerity and closes so many facilities that the wait just to enter one to request an ID is many hours. Or the delay in manufacturing the ID reaches near-infinity around common voting deadlines. And then you have the asinine lists of acceptable IDs. For several years, for example, Texas would not accept a student ID issued by a public college but would accept an expired law enforcement commission card issued by any city or county in the state. So someone may, inaccurately as it turns out, believe he or she has a "government-issued ID" when he or she actually doesn't have one that's acceptable for voting. And then you get into all of the other myriad edge cases that should not disqualify someone from acting as a citizen. Married women who changed their names. Married men who changed their names (because a man changing his name is "suspect"). Children who were adopted but still have old paperwork. Voter fraud is not a sufficiently large problem that it needs to be solved by throwing a 200-pound anvil of paperwork at preventing it. And it's not good enough to say that "most" people have a driver license or state ID or passport or something like that. Every citizen should be entitled to vote.
SeanLuke 8y ago
> But voter fraud disenfranchises everyone. What voter fraud are you referring to? The type of voter fraud that IDs would counter is "in-person" voter fraud. The amount of in-person voter fraud in the United States is extraordinarily miniscule, effectively zero. When states pass laws which intrude on liberties, they are generally required to justify those laws with "compelling interest". With near-zero in-person voter fraud there is no compelling interest on part of the state for voter ID programs. In 2016 North Carolina had one documented example of in-person voter fraud out of 4.8 million voters. But the state still requires voter ID to counter "voter fraud". This is absurd on the face of it -- it's transparently obvious that North Carolina republicans (among others) are seeking voter ID as a mechanism for suppressing the vote among various disadvantaged groups.