10 ms·

They killed the SE! Now we're stuck with screens too big to use with one hand. I really really dislike this.

pat2man 8y ago
While I liked the smaller size, the fact is that the vast majority of people prefer a larger screen for all sorts of reasons. The solution is for app developers to move as much as possible to the bottom section of the screen, which is happening relatively quickly on iOS. Secondary actions may still require a second hand, but most primary actions should not.
- iainmerrick 8y ago
  This is what everyone is saying, but the "vast majority" is what, 95% of a vast market? 97%? That still leaves a decent-sized market, which I would think could sustain a perfectly viable business. Apparently I would think wrong, but what's the issue? Is it just not possible to manufacture a high-quality small phone for a mere 1% of the world market? Plenty of Android manufacturers are making decent phones for much smaller market segments than that...
dr_ 8y ago
I have iPhone X. I use the Reachability function often, and find it fairly easy to use the phone with one hand.
- pfortuny 8y ago
  Same as I with a 7. Reachability is quite well worked out.
phyrex 8y ago
I'm really upset about this. I HATE large screens and not for the lack of trying!
Shivetya 8y ago
I am impressed the X(s) has more screen space than my 8+ has in a similar form factor. So I can have more screen without having to jump up again in size. I do admit however I would have liked to see an X in the same size as a base 8.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
untog 8y ago
Yeah, this feels like a huge shame. Android doesn't really offer anything comparable either. I realize the market for smaller devices is a minority one, but it is really so small that no-one will cater to it? You'll have to remove my SE from my cold, dead hands. It's not just one handed operation, it's simply a much better size and I'm yet to see any reason I'd want a bigger one.
- jrockway 8y ago
  I think the problem is that there are two types of people that use phones, those that think of a phone as a mini-computer, and those that think of a computer as a very large phone. Many of us on HN are probably in the first group. I look at my phone as a portable computer that's a big compromise for portability; as soon as I am within range of an actual PC, I will switch to using that. (Example, my phone is great for checking when the train is going to arrive. But before I leave for the station, I've already checked the schedule on my computer.) That usage pattern probably places us in the minority. Many people are using their phone to do things that they can't do on a computer; Snapchat, Instagram, games, etc. Those simply don't run on computers. But they suffer from the same ergonomics complaints that we do, so they make a good market for computer-shaped phones. And that is what Apple is releasing today.
eitally 8y ago
Sony offers top tier Xperia models in compact sizes, and has for several years. https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/#filter= https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/#filter= (ctrl+F for "compact").
- endemic 8y ago
  Amazingly, they also offer official AOSP builds (https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updates/ https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updat...). LineageOS is also supported on the Xperia Z5 Compact. GApps optional for the privacy conscious.
  - Youden 8y ago
    > LineageOS is also supported on the Xperia Z5 Compact. There's also unofficial support for the more recent XZ1 Compact.
    - balladeer 8y ago
      I was immediately put off by the generous bezels on top and bottom. Sony had really improved on this aspect of late (actually kinda got rid of that questionable design and form factor that was ubiquitous in Sony phones). It seems they figured they need it back for some reason.
- masklinn 8y ago
  Yeah but then you've got to use an xperia phone.
- singularity2001 8y ago
  Remove Google, add iOS and I consider it. (privacy…)
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    You can flash it with AOSP and then there's no Google: https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updates/ https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updat...
MBCook 8y ago
It’s not even the SE. I have an 8 and like the size. I would have preferred the Xr to be the physical size of the 8 so I do t have to move up if I want something newer.
- masklinn 8y ago
  The XS is the smallest of the lineup, and pretty much the replacement for the old baseline, it's 5mm taller and 4 wider than the old baseline IIRC>
  - ynniv 8y ago
    The larger screen means you can't touch the far corner with one hand, though.
    - masklinn 8y ago
      I already couldn't do that on a 6 without a grip change from my regular hold.
walterbell 8y ago
SE is awesome for travel where you want the phone to fill certain critical needs then stop distracting you. There will be a thriving SE market on eBay.
- singularity2001 8y ago
  Best moment when a friend with oversized Plus had spontaneous SE envy.
- lowlevel 8y ago
  Well, I don't know about you but I wouldn't even list mine on eBay with a $1000 reserve...
singularity2001 8y ago
The first seconds I was so hoping the XR would be the new SE with fullscreen lcd at 4.2'' and a bit cheaper, not such a giant beast. I even endured the tiresome 'incredible bla …' … just to be disapointed.
zelos 8y ago
That's ridiculous: I was hoping the SE2 rumours would turn to to be true. No idea what I'll upgrade to when my current SE stops running up-to-date iOS then.
- ballenf 8y ago
  It would make a lot of sense to hold off on announcing it for a lot of reasons: customer confusion not to mention encouraging spend on pricier devices. Could realistically be a holiday release or 1q 2019, especially since they won't have a Red phone to release then.
  - rusk 8y ago
    Actually yeah .. the original SE was a special release now that I think of it ...
  - phinnaeus 8y ago
    Here I go, getting my hopes up again. I think realistically March is the best bet, but if I'm being honest with myself, I don't seriously believe Apple will release another SE-sized device.
jotjotzzz 8y ago
As an SE user, me too. I wished they would have done a refresh for the SE.
- lowlevel 8y ago
  I was sure if I wanted the old design I had to buy it before the next iPhone. But yeah, standing still isn't really a good look for a tech company... Just because I don't want to use my face as a password or talk to a virtual assistant, or hold a phone that slips out of my hand and smashes on the ground due to rounded edges doesn't mean the iPhone X/XS/XR aren't great phones....
  - jotjotzzz 8y ago
    Definitely great phones, but I still prefer the iPhone SE size. If they upgrade the SE with the innards of the XR + with same cameras + full front screen, it would be perfection.
bunderbunder 8y ago
I had already been feeling slightly worried since installing Moment and being informed that I spend 1.5-2 hours a day looking at my phone. Not being able to replace my current distract-o-phone with another comfortably-sized one might be the thing that convinces me to give the new Nokia bananaphone a try.
sh87 8y ago
2 years ago got a 7 over a 7+ for single handed use felt the SE was too small. Now, I'm just so at ease on the rare occasion that I get to use it. Said owner doesn't like it claiming its 'slow'. I on the other hand just may switch over to a refurb SE.
- lowlevel 8y ago
  I've gone through a few of them since buying mine 6 months ago, and yeah it's going to be slow unless you manage to get one with iOS 10 on it.
  - sh87 8y ago
    Apple seems to be pushing real hard towards its OS upgrades. I imagine staying put on iOS 10 would involve a bunch of challenges including effort and time. Can't find a lot of resources to follow online either. In stark contrast is my Moto X2, after 2 years of heavy daily use before my current phone, and one screen replacement is still chugging along pretty well on its archaic version of Android. The argument that iPhones have superior hardware and build quality resulting in longer usage is negated by this constant push for upgrades. I think I know where I am headed for my next phone.
kartickv 8y ago
Not disagreeing with you, but as a developer, I'm happy that we can now do UX design for 4.7-inch phones, and prevent installation of our app on smaller phones. You do that in an indirect manner, by requiring NFC, thus eliminating 4-inch phones, which don't have NFC: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/DeviceInformation/Reference/iOSDeviceCompatibility/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40013599-CH17-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/De... (Cmd-F nfc). If Apple had updated the iPhone SE with NFC, this trick wouldn't work any more, and I'd be forced to do UX design for 4-inch phones. Till I find product-market fit, I don't want to be distracted by overhead like this.
- linkregister 8y ago
  That sounds directly user-hostile. Imagine if HN's web server served 401s to everyone with a Mozilla user agent.
  - calcifer 8y ago
    Literally everyone already has a Mozilla user agent.
  - kartickv 8y ago
    I see where you're coming from, but you're missing the point that startups are all about finding product-market fit with the least money, time and people. Guess what's worse than an app that doesn't support your particular model of iPhone? An app that supports all possible devices and configurations, but that doesn't solve a problem users care about. Then all the time and resources that went into it go down the drain.
- yurishimo 8y ago
  Just curious, since I'm not a mobile developer, is most app design done with pixel perfect layouts now? I vaguely remember watching a YouTube tutorial years and years ago (iPhone 4 I think) about making apps and many of the interface elements would expand/contract to the devices screen. Not bashing on your decision, just generally curious. If so, that sounds like a lot of work to make custom interface layouts for a half dozen devices.
ksec 8y ago
An theoretical iPhone Xr 4.7" would actually be the same size as iPhone SE. Something that Apple may consider doing next year.

While I liked the smaller size, the fact is that the vast majority of people prefer a larger screen for all sorts of reasons. The solution is for app developers to move as much as possible to the bottom section of the screen, which is happening relatively quickly on iOS. Secondary actions may still require a second hand, but most primary actions should not.

iainmerrick 8y ago
This is what everyone is saying, but the "vast majority" is what, 95% of a vast market? 97%? That still leaves a decent-sized market, which I would think could sustain a perfectly viable business. Apparently I would think wrong, but what's the issue? Is it just not possible to manufacture a high-quality small phone for a mere 1% of the world market? Plenty of Android manufacturers are making decent phones for much smaller market segments than that...

dr_ 8y ago

I have iPhone X. I use the Reachability function often, and find it fairly easy to use the phone with one hand.

pfortuny 8y ago
Same as I with a 7. Reachability is quite well worked out.

phyrex 8y ago

I'm really upset about this. I HATE large screens and not for the lack of trying!

Shivetya 8y ago

I am impressed the X(s) has more screen space than my 8+ has in a similar form factor. So I can have more screen without having to jump up again in size. I do admit however I would have liked to see an X in the same size as a base 8.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

untog 8y ago

Yeah, this feels like a huge shame. Android doesn't really offer anything comparable either. I realize the market for smaller devices is a minority one, but it is really so small that no-one will cater to it? You'll have to remove my SE from my cold, dead hands. It's not just one handed operation, it's simply a much better size and I'm yet to see any reason I'd want a bigger one.

jrockway 8y ago
I think the problem is that there are two types of people that use phones, those that think of a phone as a mini-computer, and those that think of a computer as a very large phone. Many of us on HN are probably in the first group. I look at my phone as a portable computer that's a big compromise for portability; as soon as I am within range of an actual PC, I will switch to using that. (Example, my phone is great for checking when the train is going to arrive. But before I leave for the station, I've already checked the schedule on my computer.) That usage pattern probably places us in the minority. Many people are using their phone to do things that they can't do on a computer; Snapchat, Instagram, games, etc. Those simply don't run on computers. But they suffer from the same ergonomics complaints that we do, so they make a good market for computer-shaped phones. And that is what Apple is releasing today.

eitally 8y ago

Sony offers top tier Xperia models in compact sizes, and has for several years. https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/#filter= https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/#filter= (ctrl+F for "compact").

endemic 8y ago
Amazingly, they also offer official AOSP builds (https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updates/ https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updat...). LineageOS is also supported on the Xperia Z5 Compact. GApps optional for the privacy conscious.
- Youden 8y ago
  > LineageOS is also supported on the Xperia Z5 Compact. There's also unofficial support for the more recent XZ1 Compact.
  - balladeer 8y ago
    I was immediately put off by the generous bezels on top and bottom. Sony had really improved on this aspect of late (actually kinda got rid of that questionable design and form factor that was ubiquitous in Sony phones). It seems they figured they need it back for some reason.
masklinn 8y ago
Yeah but then you've got to use an xperia phone.
singularity2001 8y ago
Remove Google, add iOS and I consider it. (privacy…)
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  You can flash it with AOSP and then there's no Google: https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updates/ https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/latest-updat...

MBCook 8y ago

It’s not even the SE. I have an 8 and like the size. I would have preferred the Xr to be the physical size of the 8 so I do t have to move up if I want something newer.

masklinn 8y ago
The XS is the smallest of the lineup, and pretty much the replacement for the old baseline, it's 5mm taller and 4 wider than the old baseline IIRC>
- ynniv 8y ago
  The larger screen means you can't touch the far corner with one hand, though.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    I already couldn't do that on a 6 without a grip change from my regular hold.

walterbell 8y ago

SE is awesome for travel where you want the phone to fill certain critical needs then stop distracting you. There will be a thriving SE market on eBay.

singularity2001 8y ago
Best moment when a friend with oversized Plus had spontaneous SE envy.
lowlevel 8y ago
Well, I don't know about you but I wouldn't even list mine on eBay with a $1000 reserve...

singularity2001 8y ago

The first seconds I was so hoping the XR would be the new SE with fullscreen lcd at 4.2'' and a bit cheaper, not such a giant beast. I even endured the tiresome 'incredible bla …' … just to be disapointed.

zelos 8y ago

That's ridiculous: I was hoping the SE2 rumours would turn to to be true. No idea what I'll upgrade to when my current SE stops running up-to-date iOS then.

ballenf 8y ago
It would make a lot of sense to hold off on announcing it for a lot of reasons: customer confusion not to mention encouraging spend on pricier devices. Could realistically be a holiday release or 1q 2019, especially since they won't have a Red phone to release then.
- rusk 8y ago
  Actually yeah .. the original SE was a special release now that I think of it ...
- phinnaeus 8y ago
  Here I go, getting my hopes up again. I think realistically March is the best bet, but if I'm being honest with myself, I don't seriously believe Apple will release another SE-sized device.

jotjotzzz 8y ago

As an SE user, me too. I wished they would have done a refresh for the SE.

lowlevel 8y ago
I was sure if I wanted the old design I had to buy it before the next iPhone. But yeah, standing still isn't really a good look for a tech company... Just because I don't want to use my face as a password or talk to a virtual assistant, or hold a phone that slips out of my hand and smashes on the ground due to rounded edges doesn't mean the iPhone X/XS/XR aren't great phones....
- jotjotzzz 8y ago
  Definitely great phones, but I still prefer the iPhone SE size. If they upgrade the SE with the innards of the XR + with same cameras + full front screen, it would be perfection.

bunderbunder 8y ago

I had already been feeling slightly worried since installing Moment and being informed that I spend 1.5-2 hours a day looking at my phone. Not being able to replace my current distract-o-phone with another comfortably-sized one might be the thing that convinces me to give the new Nokia bananaphone a try.

sh87 8y ago

2 years ago got a 7 over a 7+ for single handed use felt the SE was too small. Now, I'm just so at ease on the rare occasion that I get to use it. Said owner doesn't like it claiming its 'slow'. I on the other hand just may switch over to a refurb SE.

lowlevel 8y ago
I've gone through a few of them since buying mine 6 months ago, and yeah it's going to be slow unless you manage to get one with iOS 10 on it.
- sh87 8y ago
  Apple seems to be pushing real hard towards its OS upgrades. I imagine staying put on iOS 10 would involve a bunch of challenges including effort and time. Can't find a lot of resources to follow online either. In stark contrast is my Moto X2, after 2 years of heavy daily use before my current phone, and one screen replacement is still chugging along pretty well on its archaic version of Android. The argument that iPhones have superior hardware and build quality resulting in longer usage is negated by this constant push for upgrades. I think I know where I am headed for my next phone.

kartickv 8y ago

Not disagreeing with you, but as a developer, I'm happy that we can now do UX design for 4.7-inch phones, and prevent installation of our app on smaller phones. You do that in an indirect manner, by requiring NFC, thus eliminating 4-inch phones, which don't have NFC: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/DeviceInformation/Reference/iOSDeviceCompatibility/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40013599-CH17-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/De... (Cmd-F nfc). If Apple had updated the iPhone SE with NFC, this trick wouldn't work any more, and I'd be forced to do UX design for 4-inch phones. Till I find product-market fit, I don't want to be distracted by overhead like this.

linkregister 8y ago
That sounds directly user-hostile. Imagine if HN's web server served 401s to everyone with a Mozilla user agent.
- calcifer 8y ago
  Literally everyone already has a Mozilla user agent.
- kartickv 8y ago
  I see where you're coming from, but you're missing the point that startups are all about finding product-market fit with the least money, time and people. Guess what's worse than an app that doesn't support your particular model of iPhone? An app that supports all possible devices and configurations, but that doesn't solve a problem users care about. Then all the time and resources that went into it go down the drain.
yurishimo 8y ago
Just curious, since I'm not a mobile developer, is most app design done with pixel perfect layouts now? I vaguely remember watching a YouTube tutorial years and years ago (iPhone 4 I think) about making apps and many of the interface elements would expand/contract to the devices screen. Not bashing on your decision, just generally curious. If so, that sounds like a lot of work to make custom interface layouts for a half dozen devices.

ksec 8y ago

An theoretical iPhone Xr 4.7" would actually be the same size as iPhone SE. Something that Apple may consider doing next year.