5 ms·

"Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery

"Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery only last two hours now?" "Oh, this software is only available from source because the maintainer doesn't bother to release packages for my distro." "Oh, that's a bug in version X.1, but we patched that 9 versions ago. Why are you still using that?" "I have Debian." "Oh." conversely: "LOL, my media player broke because @HARDCORE_DISTRO released an alpha package as an update and now sound doesn't work."

quantum_magpie 8y ago
None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
  - tormeh 8y ago
    Who the hell would recommend an Arch flavor to ordinary users? Windows/MacOS should be compared to Ubuntu/Fedora(/Tubleweed). Arch is not ready for anyone who is not very interested in their OS.
    - thecatspaw 8y ago
      I wouldnt recommend Arch to an enduser, that was me trying to install it and failing. Can ubuntu nowadays install nvidia drivers or does that still not work? For an enduser "installing graphic drivers" is not particularely easy ("what is a driver, why do I need it", etc), yet something pretty basic ("why does this [linux compiled, opengl] game run at 1 fps?")
      - seba_dos1 8y ago
        Installing nvidia drivers is an option directly available in the Ubuntu installer.
      - Symmetry 8y ago
        The work laptop I'm typing this on has NVidia graphics, but all the driver stuff was handled automatically in the installation process and I never even thought about it. I just checked and found the setting where I can stop using proprietary drivers but you have to go out of your way to find that sort of thing.
      - tormeh 8y ago
        Most gamers install drivers. This process is much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows, though.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    Arch is pretty much meant for people who are comfortable with this kind of failures. It even expects you it install it by yourself, with no installer, so well...
StopTheShilling 8y ago
You never used linux, you're another hater. And for your other idiotic comment: > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. This is just pure trolling. You never used linux either, just like the other guy.
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago
On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Of course, credit where credit is due, Explorer crashing isn't necessarily all that dramatic these days. The funny thing is, even when decompression "works" on Windows 10 (that is, when you join hands in prayer and don't disturb the machine), you could theoretically just download the decompressed files faster over the internet. I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. It's perhaps my biggest gripe about modern Windows, aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, useless set of default applications, and that the built-in localized keyboard layout is obsolete and thus quite restricted as far as punctuation goes.
- com2kid 8y ago
  > On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Yeah but I have, on multiple occasions, installed updates through a Linux package manager and after a reboot been brought to the console. > I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. NTFS is bad handling a large number of small files. > aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, How so? I love the hotkeys for snapping Windows, and Windows also has hotkeys for moving windows between monitors. Lots of third party utility apps exist that can extend this functionality out.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
I haven't had any of those problems in the last decade. I have, however, spent a whole day trying to install Windows 10 because of obscure "can't find drivers message" which turned out really meant "you should unplug your install usb and replug it into a different usb port and then I can find the drivers on it". Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them.
- JadeNB 8y ago
  > Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them. Wait, really? HFS stores Unicode file names in (according to Wikipedia) the "Apple-modified variant of Unicode Normalization Format D)", but it really does store them, I think (unlike case, which it preserves but ignores, which basically means it guarantees wrong behaviour).
tormeh 8y ago
Not really. The only problems I've encountered were problems with drivers for esoteric devices. Still really annoying, but whether that's worse or better than Windows' problems depends on what devices you use and what values you have. The real problems for me are: - outdated packages or unstable rolling-distro (OpenSuse Tumbleweed is surprisingly good, but not as well-supported as Ubuntu/Fedora) - bad game support (few titles and shoddy Windows ports)
reitanqild 8y ago
I don't know what you guys do to get into all those problems. In 10ish yeaes Linux has in all except one case: - installed faster than Windows - worked out of the box, no hunting for drivers

quantum_magpie 8y ago

None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
thecatspaw 8y ago
I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
- tormeh 8y ago
  Who the hell would recommend an Arch flavor to ordinary users? Windows/MacOS should be compared to Ubuntu/Fedora(/Tubleweed). Arch is not ready for anyone who is not very interested in their OS.
  - thecatspaw 8y ago
    I wouldnt recommend Arch to an enduser, that was me trying to install it and failing. Can ubuntu nowadays install nvidia drivers or does that still not work? For an enduser "installing graphic drivers" is not particularely easy ("what is a driver, why do I need it", etc), yet something pretty basic ("why does this [linux compiled, opengl] game run at 1 fps?")
    - seba_dos1 8y ago
      Installing nvidia drivers is an option directly available in the Ubuntu installer.
    - Symmetry 8y ago
      The work laptop I'm typing this on has NVidia graphics, but all the driver stuff was handled automatically in the installation process and I never even thought about it. I just checked and found the setting where I can stop using proprietary drivers but you have to go out of your way to find that sort of thing.
    - tormeh 8y ago
      Most gamers install drivers. This process is much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows, though.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  Arch is pretty much meant for people who are comfortable with this kind of failures. It even expects you it install it by yourself, with no installer, so well...

StopTheShilling 8y ago

You never used linux, you're another hater. And for your other idiotic comment: > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. This is just pure trolling. You never used linux either, just like the other guy.

thecatspaw 8y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago

On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Of course, credit where credit is due, Explorer crashing isn't necessarily all that dramatic these days. The funny thing is, even when decompression "works" on Windows 10 (that is, when you join hands in prayer and don't disturb the machine), you could theoretically just download the decompressed files faster over the internet. I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. It's perhaps my biggest gripe about modern Windows, aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, useless set of default applications, and that the built-in localized keyboard layout is obsolete and thus quite restricted as far as punctuation goes.

com2kid 8y ago
> On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Yeah but I have, on multiple occasions, installed updates through a Linux package manager and after a reboot been brought to the console. > I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. NTFS is bad handling a large number of small files. > aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, How so? I love the hotkeys for snapping Windows, and Windows also has hotkeys for moving windows between monitors. Lots of third party utility apps exist that can extend this functionality out.

_emacsomancer_ 8y ago

I haven't had any of those problems in the last decade. I have, however, spent a whole day trying to install Windows 10 because of obscure "can't find drivers message" which turned out really meant "you should unplug your install usb and replug it into a different usb port and then I can find the drivers on it". Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them.

JadeNB 8y ago
> Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them. Wait, really? HFS stores Unicode file names in (according to Wikipedia) the "Apple-modified variant of Unicode Normalization Format D)", but it really does store them, I think (unlike case, which it preserves but ignores, which basically means it guarantees wrong behaviour).

tormeh 8y ago

Not really. The only problems I've encountered were problems with drivers for esoteric devices. Still really annoying, but whether that's worse or better than Windows' problems depends on what devices you use and what values you have. The real problems for me are: - outdated packages or unstable rolling-distro (OpenSuse Tumbleweed is surprisingly good, but not as well-supported as Ubuntu/Fedora) - bad game support (few titles and shoddy Windows ports)

reitanqild 8y ago

I don't know what you guys do to get into all those problems. In 10ish yeaes Linux has in all except one case: - installed faster than Windows - worked out of the box, no hunting for drivers