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What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? That I have too many choices and what a headache it is to have to choose a working environment rat

What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? That I have too many choices and what a headache it is to have to choose a working environment rather than have some particular paradigm forced upon me?

jarcane 8y ago
"Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery only last two hours now?" "Oh, this software is only available from source because the maintainer doesn't bother to release packages for my distro." "Oh, that's a bug in version X.1, but we patched that 9 versions ago. Why are you still using that?" "I have Debian." "Oh." conversely: "LOL, my media player broke because @HARDCORE_DISTRO released an alpha package as an update and now sound doesn't work."
- quantum_magpie 8y ago
  None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
  - thecatspaw 8y ago
    I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
    - tormeh 8y ago
      Who the hell would recommend an Arch flavor to ordinary users? Windows/MacOS should be compared to Ubuntu/Fedora(/Tubleweed). Arch is not ready for anyone who is not very interested in their OS.
      - thecatspaw 8y ago
        I wouldnt recommend Arch to an enduser, that was me trying to install it and failing. Can ubuntu nowadays install nvidia drivers or does that still not work? For an enduser "installing graphic drivers" is not particularely easy ("what is a driver, why do I need it", etc), yet something pretty basic ("why does this [linux compiled, opengl] game run at 1 fps?")
        seba_dos1 8y ago
        Installing nvidia drivers is an option directly available in the Ubuntu installer.
        Symmetry 8y ago
        The work laptop I'm typing this on has NVidia graphics, but all the driver stuff was handled automatically in the installation process and I never even thought about it. I just checked and found the setting where I can stop using proprietary drivers but you have to go out of your way to find that sort of thing.
        8y ago
- StopTheShilling 8y ago
  You never used linux, you're another hater. And for your other idiotic comment: > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. This is just pure trolling. You never used linux either, just like the other guy.
  - thecatspaw 8y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago
  On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Of course, credit where credit is due, Explorer crashing isn't necessarily all that dramatic these days. The funny thing is, even when decompression "works" on Windows 10 (that is, when you join hands in prayer and don't disturb the machine), you could theoretically just download the decompressed files faster over the internet. I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. It's perhaps my biggest gripe about modern Windows, aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, useless set of default applications, and that the built-in localized keyboard layout is obsolete and thus quite restricted as far as punctuation goes.
  - com2kid 8y ago
    > On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Yeah but I have, on multiple occasions, installed updates through a Linux package manager and after a reboot been brought to the console. > I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. NTFS is bad handling a large number of small files. > aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, How so? I love the hotkeys for snapping Windows, and Windows also has hotkeys for moving windows between monitors. Lots of third party utility apps exist that can extend this functionality out.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  I haven't had any of those problems in the last decade. I have, however, spent a whole day trying to install Windows 10 because of obscure "can't find drivers message" which turned out really meant "you should unplug your install usb and replug it into a different usb port and then I can find the drivers on it". Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them.
  - JadeNB 8y ago
    > Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them. Wait, really? HFS stores Unicode file names in (according to Wikipedia) the "Apple-modified variant of Unicode Normalization Format D)", but it really does store them, I think (unlike case, which it preserves but ignores, which basically means it guarantees wrong behaviour).
- tormeh 8y ago
  Not really. The only problems I've encountered were problems with drivers for esoteric devices. Still really annoying, but whether that's worse or better than Windows' problems depends on what devices you use and what values you have. The real problems for me are: - outdated packages or unstable rolling-distro (OpenSuse Tumbleweed is surprisingly good, but not as well-supported as Ubuntu/Fedora) - bad game support (few titles and shoddy Windows ports)
- reitanqild 8y ago
  I don't know what you guys do to get into all those problems. In 10ish yeaes Linux has in all except one case: - installed faster than Windows - worked out of the box, no hunting for drivers
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? Spend about 5 minutes poking around on the internet with your eyes open and you'll see. If you're too lazy for that, this guy has put together a convenient, but by no means complete, list [0]. > rather than have some particular paradigm forced upon me? You have many paradigms forced upon you, they're just paradigms you happen to be comfortable with so you don't count them. [0] https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
- StopTheShilling 8y ago
  That list is full with nonsense.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    Let's boil it down to the things that actually affect users: it's all about software. - Major vendors don't support Linux. - Installing software that's newer than what is provided by your distribution is difficult. - Installing software that's outside your distribution's channels is difficult. - Drivers installed outside the kernel are unstable.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  > Spend about 5 minutes poking around on the internet with your eyes open and you'll see. If you're too lazy for that, this guy has put together a convenient, but by no means complete, list. Why don't you just say what they are, rather than trying to offload and displace the question? > You have many paradigms forced upon you, they're just paradigms you happen to be comfortable with so you don't count them. Such as what? Monolithic kernel vs microkernel? What paradigm is forced upon me? > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. Except what problems have you pointed out? You're just hand-waving and saying "Oh course the Linux Desktop is unusable. Just at random webpages - that proves it!"
  - 8y ago
hazz99 8y ago
I've recently (tried) helping a friend install Ubuntu on her laptop. Although it worked fine for my Desktop computer, I ran into numerous issues on hers: - Touchpad didn't work - After fixed touchpad, physical touchpad buttons still don't work - Wifi doesn't work - Wifi hotspot doesn't work - Lack of gestures And others that I can't remember off the top of my head.
- krn 8y ago
  What model was it? Most manufacturers only test their hardware on Windows. Canonical maintains a list of devices that are certified to work with Ubuntu[1]. [1] https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/
  - komali2 8y ago
    Be careful about trusting that certification. Note that the 3rd gen Thinkpad x1 Yoga[0] is "certified," however, there is a critical change in the BIOS that prevents the laptop from using s3 sleep mode, apparently to switch to some proprietary Windows sleep mode. Therefore, without any changes, when you close the lid, your battery will drain at about the same speed as if the laptop was running. This is obviously untenable. The solution is to manually patch your BIOS, which doesn't always work and is extremely technical. It's also not a solution provided by Lenovo, so officially, there is no solution. Ninjaedit: Hmm, it appears Lenovo may have finally issued a BIOS update to fix this issue. [0](https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201801-26053/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201801-26053/) https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-6-cannot-enter-deep-sleep-S3-state-aka-Suspend-to/td-p/3998182/ https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-...
    - krn 8y ago
      I think the certification means, that all the hardware parts of the device are supported by the OS. The device itself might not even be tested to see if there are no other issues. Generally, it's a problem with newly released devices, that don't have many active users yet.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

jarcane 8y ago

"Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery only last two hours now?" "Oh, this software is only available from source because the maintainer doesn't bother to release packages for my distro." "Oh, that's a bug in version X.1, but we patched that 9 versions ago. Why are you still using that?" "I have Debian." "Oh." conversely: "LOL, my media player broke because @HARDCORE_DISTRO released an alpha package as an update and now sound doesn't work."

quantum_magpie 8y ago
None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
  - tormeh 8y ago
    Who the hell would recommend an Arch flavor to ordinary users? Windows/MacOS should be compared to Ubuntu/Fedora(/Tubleweed). Arch is not ready for anyone who is not very interested in their OS.
    - thecatspaw 8y ago
      I wouldnt recommend Arch to an enduser, that was me trying to install it and failing. Can ubuntu nowadays install nvidia drivers or does that still not work? For an enduser "installing graphic drivers" is not particularely easy ("what is a driver, why do I need it", etc), yet something pretty basic ("why does this [linux compiled, opengl] game run at 1 fps?")
      - seba_dos1 8y ago
        Installing nvidia drivers is an option directly available in the Ubuntu installer.
      - Symmetry 8y ago
        The work laptop I'm typing this on has NVidia graphics, but all the driver stuff was handled automatically in the installation process and I never even thought about it. I just checked and found the setting where I can stop using proprietary drivers but you have to go out of your way to find that sort of thing.
      - 8y ago
StopTheShilling 8y ago
You never used linux, you're another hater. And for your other idiotic comment: > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. This is just pure trolling. You never used linux either, just like the other guy.
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago
On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Of course, credit where credit is due, Explorer crashing isn't necessarily all that dramatic these days. The funny thing is, even when decompression "works" on Windows 10 (that is, when you join hands in prayer and don't disturb the machine), you could theoretically just download the decompressed files faster over the internet. I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. It's perhaps my biggest gripe about modern Windows, aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, useless set of default applications, and that the built-in localized keyboard layout is obsolete and thus quite restricted as far as punctuation goes.
- com2kid 8y ago
  > On the other hand, I've never had my Linux desktop crash for decompressing a big ZIP archive. Yeah but I have, on multiple occasions, installed updates through a Linux package manager and after a reboot been brought to the console. > I can only guess the there's something fundamentally broken about Windows and file systems because many operations are so ridiculously slow no matter the hardware. NTFS is bad handling a large number of small files. > aside from the actual desktop (working with multiple windows) being very bare and annoying to use, How so? I love the hotkeys for snapping Windows, and Windows also has hotkeys for moving windows between monitors. Lots of third party utility apps exist that can extend this functionality out.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
I haven't had any of those problems in the last decade. I have, however, spent a whole day trying to install Windows 10 because of obscure "can't find drivers message" which turned out really meant "you should unplug your install usb and replug it into a different usb port and then I can find the drivers on it". Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them.
- JadeNB 8y ago
  > Or trying to work with students on a Swift project, only to find out that the MacOS file system pretends to understand Unicode file names, but really ignores them. Wait, really? HFS stores Unicode file names in (according to Wikipedia) the "Apple-modified variant of Unicode Normalization Format D)", but it really does store them, I think (unlike case, which it preserves but ignores, which basically means it guarantees wrong behaviour).
tormeh 8y ago
Not really. The only problems I've encountered were problems with drivers for esoteric devices. Still really annoying, but whether that's worse or better than Windows' problems depends on what devices you use and what values you have. The real problems for me are: - outdated packages or unstable rolling-distro (OpenSuse Tumbleweed is surprisingly good, but not as well-supported as Ubuntu/Fedora) - bad game support (few titles and shoddy Windows ports)
reitanqild 8y ago
I don't know what you guys do to get into all those problems. In 10ish yeaes Linux has in all except one case: - installed faster than Windows - worked out of the box, no hunting for drivers

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? Spend about 5 minutes poking around on the internet with your eyes open and you'll see. If you're too lazy for that, this guy has put together a convenient, but by no means complete, list [0]. > rather than have some particular paradigm forced upon me? You have many paradigms forced upon you, they're just paradigms you happen to be comfortable with so you don't count them. [0] https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...

StopTheShilling 8y ago
That list is full with nonsense.
- Spivak 8y ago
  Let's boil it down to the things that actually affect users: it's all about software. - Major vendors don't support Linux. - Installing software that's newer than what is provided by your distribution is difficult. - Installing software that's outside your distribution's channels is difficult. - Drivers installed outside the kernel are unstable.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
> Spend about 5 minutes poking around on the internet with your eyes open and you'll see. If you're too lazy for that, this guy has put together a convenient, but by no means complete, list. Why don't you just say what they are, rather than trying to offload and displace the question? > You have many paradigms forced upon you, they're just paradigms you happen to be comfortable with so you don't count them. Such as what? Monolithic kernel vs microkernel? What paradigm is forced upon me? > Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses. Except what problems have you pointed out? You're just hand-waving and saying "Oh course the Linux Desktop is unusable. Just at random webpages - that proves it!"
- 8y ago

hazz99 8y ago

I've recently (tried) helping a friend install Ubuntu on her laptop. Although it worked fine for my Desktop computer, I ran into numerous issues on hers: - Touchpad didn't work - After fixed touchpad, physical touchpad buttons still don't work - Wifi doesn't work - Wifi hotspot doesn't work - Lack of gestures And others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

krn 8y ago
What model was it? Most manufacturers only test their hardware on Windows. Canonical maintains a list of devices that are certified to work with Ubuntu[1]. [1] https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/
- komali2 8y ago
  Be careful about trusting that certification. Note that the 3rd gen Thinkpad x1 Yoga[0] is "certified," however, there is a critical change in the BIOS that prevents the laptop from using s3 sleep mode, apparently to switch to some proprietary Windows sleep mode. Therefore, without any changes, when you close the lid, your battery will drain at about the same speed as if the laptop was running. This is obviously untenable. The solution is to manually patch your BIOS, which doesn't always work and is extremely technical. It's also not a solution provided by Lenovo, so officially, there is no solution. Ninjaedit: Hmm, it appears Lenovo may have finally issued a BIOS update to fix this issue. [0](https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201801-26053/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201801-26053/) https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-6-cannot-enter-deep-sleep-S3-state-aka-Suspend-to/td-p/3998182/ https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-...
  - krn 8y ago
    I think the certification means, that all the hardware parts of the device are supported by the OS. The device itself might not even be tested to see if there are no other issues. Generally, it's a problem with newly released devices, that don't have many active users yet.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]