9 ms·

Why wouldn't Silicon Valley be affected by this? Most companies have european customers.

vorpalhex 8y ago
"If you are in the EU, you are not allowed to use this website." Pretty much the same solution for kids under 13 years of age (which is to say, they of course still do use these sites, they simply lie about it which shifts the burden...)
- sebst 8y ago
  Yes, I guess this type of behaviour is why they have called it "inter"net in the first place.
- ahakki 8y ago
  If I’m not allowed to use your service you won’t get any of my money though. Unlike kids under the age of 13 I have disposable income.
  - pwned1 8y ago
    It's looking more and more like your money isn't worth the compliance cost to companies to obtain your money.
    - bad_user 8y ago
      Not that I agree with this copyright directive, it's horrible and I intend to find out which of my representatives supported it such that I can do something about it. But the EU, as a whole, is the world's biggest market and it is a common market in spite of legal and cultural differences between countries. So that's pretty naive. And if companies think the "compliance cost" is too big, that's fine, it means they are leaving money on the table for their competition to pick up. The best outcome is actually the EU getting some real alternatives to US services that are deemed to be indispensable. So personally, as an EU citizen, for companies no longer wanting to serve EU citizens, all I can say is don't let the door hit you on your way out.
      - owenversteeg 8y ago
        I too am an EU citizen, living in the Netherlands. I am also an American citizen and have lived there. Although I generally prefer the Dutch set of laws to the American, Dutch laws stifle innovation. The difference in even simple things like setting up a business, hiring an employee, and ensuring compliance with local laws is insane. Every time I go to America I get requests for random things that either don't exist in the Netherlands or are criminally expensive. Bengay cream here costs €16.20 for 57g, only available at special online shops. In America you can buy it everywhere, €5.84 for 113g. That's one example. You might criticize it for being too arcane, but there are hundreds of thousands. Each one of these things costs double the Amazon price or more for popular products: RAM, angle steel, many batteries, sanding belts, IEMs, pumps, permethrin, LEDs. That's just off the top of my head. Every time I need something it's a game: will I get lucky and pay 40% extra, or will it be only available for 200% the price? Or even worse, not available at all? You want to sell those things above? Go ahead. A few of them are even triple (!!!) the American retail price, so you'll make bank, right? Start a business. But you won't, and nobody else will, because it's tremendously difficult to start a business here. I can understand higher taxes make products more expensive - sure. Those taxes provide the benefits I enjoy in a country like the Netherlands. I can even deal with the cost of shipping from America. But I cannot deal with paying double or triple the cost for hundreds of thousands of various products. And laws like this just continue the movement in the wrong direction.
        guitarbill 8y ago
        I'm sure I can find counter examples. Off the top of my head, aerosol deodorant is 1/3 in the UK vs US. Generic medicines, e.g. Aspirin, Paracetamol, or Ibuprofen are cheaper. Cheese. Basic shit. Seems like a bit of a straw-man argument anyway. Businesses don't usually pay consumer-oriented taxes like VAT (UK), or Mehrwertsteuer (DE). So which taxes are we talking about exactly? And importing stuff isn't too hard. If it was a truly Dutch issue, you'd set up the import business in another EU country, and then ship it to the Netherlands once it's inside the Union.
        owenversteeg 8y ago
    - arnvald 8y ago
      Any examples, beyond news sites where 95% of users come from US anyway?
      - pwned1 8y ago
        I'm an attorney and I've gotten lots of small business owners asking me about GDPR compliance. It's simple in theory -- just disclose your policies, let people delete their data, etc. The mechanics of compliance aren't really the issue. It's concern about enforcement and the uncertainty of it. After I explain jurisdictional issues and the fact that enforcement of GDPR against a purely US-based company is completely untested (and probably not even possible), most just reply "fuck it, we'll just not sell to anyone in Europe." I agree with the basic concept of GDPR, but the uncertainty around it, the seemingly unclear nature of what exactly it means, and the fact that it will be enforced by each individual EU member potentially differently, all adds up. It's just not worth it. This just adds to the pile, in a BIG way
    - draw_down 8y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17968398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17968398
  - sbarker 8y ago
    I know an 11yo that just spent $100 on fortnite.
- Faark 8y ago
  Are you comparing it to age prompts? Those were way less effective than IP based geo blocks. Since GDPR, a lot of, maybe even most of the time it's not worth the effort to reload the page through a proxy. Especially for stuff linked to me by social media.
- yummybear 8y ago
  Yeah, but wouldn't cutting 500 million of the wealthiest customers from your solution have a pretty significant business impact?
  - aldoushuxley001 8y ago
    Not as significant as curtailing free-speech. Some things don't have a price tag.
  - briandear 8y ago
    Google left China; a far bigger market than Europe.
    - pimmen 8y ago
      But it's also far riskier, at leats this time they were assaulted by a law in the EU parliament. In China, the party could just decide they don't like you and get rid of your business.
    - snaky 8y ago
      > Now, Google appears to be changing its mind. Under a plan called Dragonfly, the company has been testing a censored version of its search engine for the Chinese market. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/technology/google-china-conventionality.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/technology/google-china-c...
  - nordsieck 8y ago
    > Yeah, but wouldn't cutting 500 million of the wealthiest customers from your solution have a pretty significant business impact? It seems likely that large internet businesses will probably pay to comply with GDPR. Many small businesses, whose customers are often mostly regional anyhow, may decide that it's just not worth the cost of compliance.
    - dominotw 8y ago
      > may decide that it's just not worth the cost of compliance. You cannot not comply with it though.
aikah 8y ago
Status code 451. And frankly I understand the foreign start ups that end up just doing this.

"If you are in the EU, you are not allowed to use this website." Pretty much the same solution for kids under 13 years of age (which is to say, they of course still do use these sites, they simply lie about it which shifts the burden...)

sebst 8y ago
Yes, I guess this type of behaviour is why they have called it "inter"net in the first place.
ahakki 8y ago
If I’m not allowed to use your service you won’t get any of my money though. Unlike kids under the age of 13 I have disposable income.
- pwned1 8y ago
  It's looking more and more like your money isn't worth the compliance cost to companies to obtain your money.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    Not that I agree with this copyright directive, it's horrible and I intend to find out which of my representatives supported it such that I can do something about it. But the EU, as a whole, is the world's biggest market and it is a common market in spite of legal and cultural differences between countries. So that's pretty naive. And if companies think the "compliance cost" is too big, that's fine, it means they are leaving money on the table for their competition to pick up. The best outcome is actually the EU getting some real alternatives to US services that are deemed to be indispensable. So personally, as an EU citizen, for companies no longer wanting to serve EU citizens, all I can say is don't let the door hit you on your way out.
    - owenversteeg 8y ago
      I too am an EU citizen, living in the Netherlands. I am also an American citizen and have lived there. Although I generally prefer the Dutch set of laws to the American, Dutch laws stifle innovation. The difference in even simple things like setting up a business, hiring an employee, and ensuring compliance with local laws is insane. Every time I go to America I get requests for random things that either don't exist in the Netherlands or are criminally expensive. Bengay cream here costs €16.20 for 57g, only available at special online shops. In America you can buy it everywhere, €5.84 for 113g. That's one example. You might criticize it for being too arcane, but there are hundreds of thousands. Each one of these things costs double the Amazon price or more for popular products: RAM, angle steel, many batteries, sanding belts, IEMs, pumps, permethrin, LEDs. That's just off the top of my head. Every time I need something it's a game: will I get lucky and pay 40% extra, or will it be only available for 200% the price? Or even worse, not available at all? You want to sell those things above? Go ahead. A few of them are even triple (!!!) the American retail price, so you'll make bank, right? Start a business. But you won't, and nobody else will, because it's tremendously difficult to start a business here. I can understand higher taxes make products more expensive - sure. Those taxes provide the benefits I enjoy in a country like the Netherlands. I can even deal with the cost of shipping from America. But I cannot deal with paying double or triple the cost for hundreds of thousands of various products. And laws like this just continue the movement in the wrong direction.
      - guitarbill 8y ago
        I'm sure I can find counter examples. Off the top of my head, aerosol deodorant is 1/3 in the UK vs US. Generic medicines, e.g. Aspirin, Paracetamol, or Ibuprofen are cheaper. Cheese. Basic shit. Seems like a bit of a straw-man argument anyway. Businesses don't usually pay consumer-oriented taxes like VAT (UK), or Mehrwertsteuer (DE). So which taxes are we talking about exactly? And importing stuff isn't too hard. If it was a truly Dutch issue, you'd set up the import business in another EU country, and then ship it to the Netherlands once it's inside the Union.
        owenversteeg 8y ago
  - arnvald 8y ago
    Any examples, beyond news sites where 95% of users come from US anyway?
    - pwned1 8y ago
      I'm an attorney and I've gotten lots of small business owners asking me about GDPR compliance. It's simple in theory -- just disclose your policies, let people delete their data, etc. The mechanics of compliance aren't really the issue. It's concern about enforcement and the uncertainty of it. After I explain jurisdictional issues and the fact that enforcement of GDPR against a purely US-based company is completely untested (and probably not even possible), most just reply "fuck it, we'll just not sell to anyone in Europe." I agree with the basic concept of GDPR, but the uncertainty around it, the seemingly unclear nature of what exactly it means, and the fact that it will be enforced by each individual EU member potentially differently, all adds up. It's just not worth it. This just adds to the pile, in a BIG way
  - draw_down 8y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17968398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17968398
- sbarker 8y ago
  I know an 11yo that just spent $100 on fortnite.
Faark 8y ago
Are you comparing it to age prompts? Those were way less effective than IP based geo blocks. Since GDPR, a lot of, maybe even most of the time it's not worth the effort to reload the page through a proxy. Especially for stuff linked to me by social media.
yummybear 8y ago
Yeah, but wouldn't cutting 500 million of the wealthiest customers from your solution have a pretty significant business impact?
- aldoushuxley001 8y ago
  Not as significant as curtailing free-speech. Some things don't have a price tag.
- briandear 8y ago
  Google left China; a far bigger market than Europe.
  - pimmen 8y ago
    But it's also far riskier, at leats this time they were assaulted by a law in the EU parliament. In China, the party could just decide they don't like you and get rid of your business.
  - snaky 8y ago
    > Now, Google appears to be changing its mind. Under a plan called Dragonfly, the company has been testing a censored version of its search engine for the Chinese market. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/technology/google-china-conventionality.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/technology/google-china-c...
- nordsieck 8y ago
  > Yeah, but wouldn't cutting 500 million of the wealthiest customers from your solution have a pretty significant business impact? It seems likely that large internet businesses will probably pay to comply with GDPR. Many small businesses, whose customers are often mostly regional anyhow, may decide that it's just not worth the cost of compliance.
  - dominotw 8y ago
    > may decide that it's just not worth the cost of compliance. You cannot not comply with it though.

aikah 8y ago

Status code 451. And frankly I understand the foreign start ups that end up just doing this.