5 ms·

Since this censored version of the search engine will only work in China, I don't see how they are "handing the future of the Internet" to them.

by faag39 8y ago

YouKnowBetter 8y ago
I presume that is on the premissis that every other state / regime will be able to leverage that deal between Google & China to black out whatever they think is not PC in their country.
- xbmcuser 8y ago
  Most of them already do this the slippery slope was started with Europe with it's right to be forgotten US with its Dmca. It's funny how many people have forgotten this if those things can be censored by Google because of these countries laws why is results cencsoring for China under Chinese laws is any different.
  - peteretep 8y ago
    Because Chinese laws are intended to stifle debate and oppress human rights, where the EU laws protect privacy, and the US ones protect intellectual property?
    - bushin 8y ago
      "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter"
- faag39 8y ago
  I live in the EU where there's no freedom of speech and Google and the rest of tech companies are already being told about what they have to censor. I don't see how this is anything new. It's only in the news because it's China.
  - wildebaard 8y ago
    What makes you say there is no freedom of speech in the EU? I also live there but I do not experience it like that.
    - yAnonymous 8y ago
      German here. Our government has pressured Facebook to allow private corporations (that of course are close to the government) to delete Facebook content -posts and pages with millions of followers- for political reasons as they see fit. The legal process was completely removed. They use this to help their election campaigns by branding government critical content as extremist and having it removed without due process. You'd think that when they remove content like that, they'd report the offenders to legal authorities -because after all, they are only allowed to remove content that is clearly illegal- but in most cases they don't. They just want the content gone and move on, which makes it very clear that this is just a censorship tool and their generous interpretation of illegal hate speech wouldn't hold up in any court.
      - wildebaard 8y ago
        Well, if the definition of free speech is 'it should be allowed on Facebook' then that's a horrible definition :) It does point toward a bigger issue, where Facebook is used and trusted by so many users that they do not access alternative sources of information.
        yAnonymous 8y ago
        No. The companies involved (Arvato/Bertelsmann) get to make their own rules. Facebook doesn't even have a say in this, although they're paying for it as required by the law. They were threatened with fines in the millions (up to 50 mil) if they didn't comply. The situation is absurd. Facebook is legally required to pay for censorship by companies with close ties to the government.
        wildebaard 8y ago
07d046 8y ago
It's arguing that China could leverage Google's Chinese market access to influence how Google behaves around the world, sort of like how almost all airlines around the world now say Taiwan is part of China: > Once Google’s new Chinese business is up and running, there will be nothing to stop Beijing from seeking to dictate how references to Taiwan are addressed not just in China but throughout the site globally. China may also demand to shape how protests in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or the mainland are addressed or what happens when people search for dissidents such as Liu Xiaobo or topics such as human rights. While Google executives may believe that their company would never accede to such requests outside of China’s borders, there are no guarantees. If China gains the leverage to shape how Google presents what Beijing considers to be sensitive topics throughout the rest of the world, it will deal a mortal blow to international principles of freedom of expression and thought.
- eastendguy 8y ago
  I wish I had a super-upvote button. That is exactly my concern... once Google's China revenue is a significant part of the revenue, exactly this will happen. The European car manufactures already do everything that China wants. But at least they do not run a search engine or newspaper. "Proof:" Google for "Mercedes apologies to China after quoting Dalai Lama" in a tweet for its European customers.
ctack 8y ago
Beijing currently influences it's weaker trading partners(which is most of the developing world) on various political points. For example - Taiwan policy or Dalai Lama visits. It's not hard to imagine China then asking them to use their "new and improved" version of Google too.
- jamespo 8y ago
  Slippery slope argument
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    Doesn't mean it's invalid. Some slopes are in fact slippery.
avaika 8y ago
Cause other countries might say "Ha, we also want this cool censored version. Please remove all negative information about our government and whatever we don't like. Here's your money (optionally). Otherwise we will find a nice reason to ban you in our country". Especially those with authoritative regime.
muraiki 8y ago
Downvoted because the entire article is about explaining this.

Since this censored version of the search engine will only work in China, I don't see how they are "handing the future of the Internet" to them.

by faag39 8y ago

Since this censored version of the search engine will only work in China, I don't see how they are "handing the future of the Internet" to them.

YouKnowBetter 8y ago

I presume that is on the premissis that every other state / regime will be able to leverage that deal between Google & China to black out whatever they think is not PC in their country.

xbmcuser 8y ago
Most of them already do this the slippery slope was started with Europe with it's right to be forgotten US with its Dmca. It's funny how many people have forgotten this if those things can be censored by Google because of these countries laws why is results cencsoring for China under Chinese laws is any different.
- peteretep 8y ago
  Because Chinese laws are intended to stifle debate and oppress human rights, where the EU laws protect privacy, and the US ones protect intellectual property?
  - bushin 8y ago
    "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter"
faag39 8y ago
I live in the EU where there's no freedom of speech and Google and the rest of tech companies are already being told about what they have to censor. I don't see how this is anything new. It's only in the news because it's China.
- wildebaard 8y ago
  What makes you say there is no freedom of speech in the EU? I also live there but I do not experience it like that.
  - yAnonymous 8y ago
    German here. Our government has pressured Facebook to allow private corporations (that of course are close to the government) to delete Facebook content -posts and pages with millions of followers- for political reasons as they see fit. The legal process was completely removed. They use this to help their election campaigns by branding government critical content as extremist and having it removed without due process. You'd think that when they remove content like that, they'd report the offenders to legal authorities -because after all, they are only allowed to remove content that is clearly illegal- but in most cases they don't. They just want the content gone and move on, which makes it very clear that this is just a censorship tool and their generous interpretation of illegal hate speech wouldn't hold up in any court.
    - wildebaard 8y ago
      Well, if the definition of free speech is 'it should be allowed on Facebook' then that's a horrible definition :) It does point toward a bigger issue, where Facebook is used and trusted by so many users that they do not access alternative sources of information.
      - yAnonymous 8y ago
        No. The companies involved (Arvato/Bertelsmann) get to make their own rules. Facebook doesn't even have a say in this, although they're paying for it as required by the law. They were threatened with fines in the millions (up to 50 mil) if they didn't comply. The situation is absurd. Facebook is legally required to pay for censorship by companies with close ties to the government.
        wildebaard 8y ago

07d046 8y ago

It's arguing that China could leverage Google's Chinese market access to influence how Google behaves around the world, sort of like how almost all airlines around the world now say Taiwan is part of China: > Once Google’s new Chinese business is up and running, there will be nothing to stop Beijing from seeking to dictate how references to Taiwan are addressed not just in China but throughout the site globally. China may also demand to shape how protests in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or the mainland are addressed or what happens when people search for dissidents such as Liu Xiaobo or topics such as human rights. While Google executives may believe that their company would never accede to such requests outside of China’s borders, there are no guarantees. If China gains the leverage to shape how Google presents what Beijing considers to be sensitive topics throughout the rest of the world, it will deal a mortal blow to international principles of freedom of expression and thought.

eastendguy 8y ago
I wish I had a super-upvote button. That is exactly my concern... once Google's China revenue is a significant part of the revenue, exactly this will happen. The European car manufactures already do everything that China wants. But at least they do not run a search engine or newspaper. "Proof:" Google for "Mercedes apologies to China after quoting Dalai Lama" in a tweet for its European customers.

ctack 8y ago

Beijing currently influences it's weaker trading partners(which is most of the developing world) on various political points. For example - Taiwan policy or Dalai Lama visits. It's not hard to imagine China then asking them to use their "new and improved" version of Google too.

jamespo 8y ago
Slippery slope argument
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  Doesn't mean it's invalid. Some slopes are in fact slippery.

avaika 8y ago

Cause other countries might say "Ha, we also want this cool censored version. Please remove all negative information about our government and whatever we don't like. Here's your money (optionally). Otherwise we will find a nice reason to ban you in our country". Especially those with authoritative regime.

muraiki 8y ago

Downvoted because the entire article is about explaining this.