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The "deal breakers" checklist skirts the true issue. I have been married longer than most HN members have been alive, which is no accident. So I'll temporarily

The "deal breakers" checklist skirts the true issue. I have been married longer than most HN members have been alive, which is no accident. So I'll temporarily be arrogant enough say my peace on the theory that someone might find it useful, and then duck and cover. There really is only one thing that matters: You and your partner must share the same value system, or at least if not identical, then there must not be core values in conflict. Why? If you agree on core values, then any disagreements (and there will be many) will be about implementation, not about the desired end state. Those are healthy discussions, even if stressful. It is possible to both be "on the same side of the problem" -- it is the two of you against the problem, and the disagreement is about how to get from point A to point B. On the other hand, when a core value is in conflict, the only way one person can be happy is if the other person gives up a part of themselves. That is at the very least the seed of resentment, and can't help but be a wound that will not heal. So.. Step 1: Clarify in your own mind your own values. Until you have done that, you have nothing to go on. Step 2: Get to know your potential partner well enough that you both understand each other's core values. Make sure they are compatible. I wish I could say I did this, but in all honesty I had been married for 20 years before I understood it. I just happened to get lucky -- growing up under similar circumstances as my bride has given us common touchstones.

Diederich 8y ago
I've been married about 19 years, and I think I'm clear on what you're saying. But I haven't heard it put quite this way. Can you cite some concrete examples of these values, and, perhaps, common ways that an otherwise seemingly compatible couple might not share them? Thanks.
- umvi 8y ago
  Person A is religious and values spiritual growth. Person A wants their kids to believe in God and develop spiritually. Person B is atheist and thinks religion is a crock. Person B wants their kids to reject religion and flush spirituality down the toilet. Person B is willing to let A go to church on Sundays to make the relationship work since B is attracted to A. But there will probably be big problems with this over time, especially if kids come into the picture.
- rayiner 8y ago
  > Can you cite some concrete examples of these values, and, perhaps, common ways that an otherwise seemingly compatible couple might not share them? Thanks. A friend of mine's wife once said to him, about planning some extended vacation despite his busy schedule: "if you loved me you'd make time!" Between my wife and I, this is a punchline. But for many perfectly reasonable people it would be a sincere request worthy of fulfillment. A couple having different reactions to this statement could mean a lot of resentment built-up over time.
01100011 8y ago
The problem is people often change in fundamental ways. It is difficult to choose a partner in your early 20s who will retain the same value system throughout their life. Both myself and my ex are very different people from what we were in our 20s. There are many factors that contribute to a successful marriage. I'd say commitment is one - you have to want the marriage to work. You have to accept that the other person is an individual and accept that they aren't your twin and also that they are free to grow. You may disagree, for instance politically, yet you have to respect them and allow the differences. It's tough to run a 3 legged race for 30-40 years.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dsajames 8y ago
  I find that people who marry young grow together. The post about core values hits it right on the head in my years of experience. Nothing has come close to ruining my marriage as much as that.
thrownaway1337 8y ago
Why should we get married in the first place? And how do you clarify your values? Can you give some examples of what your values are?
- jd75 8y ago
  Everyone's goals vary, but I got married because I wanted kids and I wanted help raising them from someone with a vested interest in doing so.
  - thrownaway1337 8y ago
    Why did you want kids? I always felt like I should want to get married and that I should want kids, but I just... don't. The desire just isn't there. I'm 29 and have been with my partner for long enough that marriage and likely kids are now the next stops on the what you're supposed to do in life train. And I guess it's not that I actively don't want it. I just don't feel an inclination toward or away from it. There's just kind of an absent feeling about it... There's not anything internal making me want it (there is external pressure from my partner though who does want to get married and from society who expects us to get married). Does this feeling change? Or am I just weird? Or should I just do it anyway?
    - captain_perl 8y ago
      Most women in a relationship will emphatically tell you when they want to get engaged, married or have kids. They also have a biological clock to have kids before they're 35, and most listen to that clock. Men don't have that clock, so there's different types and levels of motivation. In my case, I wasn't interested in having kids until my late 40s, when the circumstances were convincing (responsible partner, as late in life as reasonably possible.) Although I prefer being around adults, I understand that kids are doing their job when they require attention. I find my "clone" to be a plus overall, though expensive. Career-wise, I vaguely thought having kids would be an advantage somehow, but I was incorrect. In the USA, companies don't care about employees ("at will employment"), and the same is true about your family.
jd75 8y ago
I'm not sure I could identify my "core values" in a crowd -- where I feel lucky is in the "healthy discussions". My husband and I don't hit each other with too many of the Four Horsemen: https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/ https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-c...
poulsbohemian 8y ago
I was married for 17 years, for about the last ten unhappily, and together with that person for about twenty. You absolutely nailed it - if the values are in sync, it works. Unfortunately sometimes values shift as life goes on.
dsajames 8y ago
Wow. Very well said. I have had years of unsettled conflicts because I didn't do this when I married.

Diederich 8y ago

I've been married about 19 years, and I think I'm clear on what you're saying. But I haven't heard it put quite this way. Can you cite some concrete examples of these values, and, perhaps, common ways that an otherwise seemingly compatible couple might not share them? Thanks.

umvi 8y ago
Person A is religious and values spiritual growth. Person A wants their kids to believe in God and develop spiritually. Person B is atheist and thinks religion is a crock. Person B wants their kids to reject religion and flush spirituality down the toilet. Person B is willing to let A go to church on Sundays to make the relationship work since B is attracted to A. But there will probably be big problems with this over time, especially if kids come into the picture.
rayiner 8y ago
> Can you cite some concrete examples of these values, and, perhaps, common ways that an otherwise seemingly compatible couple might not share them? Thanks. A friend of mine's wife once said to him, about planning some extended vacation despite his busy schedule: "if you loved me you'd make time!" Between my wife and I, this is a punchline. But for many perfectly reasonable people it would be a sincere request worthy of fulfillment. A couple having different reactions to this statement could mean a lot of resentment built-up over time.

01100011 8y ago

The problem is people often change in fundamental ways. It is difficult to choose a partner in your early 20s who will retain the same value system throughout their life. Both myself and my ex are very different people from what we were in our 20s. There are many factors that contribute to a successful marriage. I'd say commitment is one - you have to want the marriage to work. You have to accept that the other person is an individual and accept that they aren't your twin and also that they are free to grow. You may disagree, for instance politically, yet you have to respect them and allow the differences. It's tough to run a 3 legged race for 30-40 years.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dsajames 8y ago
I find that people who marry young grow together. The post about core values hits it right on the head in my years of experience. Nothing has come close to ruining my marriage as much as that.

thrownaway1337 8y ago

Why should we get married in the first place? And how do you clarify your values? Can you give some examples of what your values are?

jd75 8y ago
Everyone's goals vary, but I got married because I wanted kids and I wanted help raising them from someone with a vested interest in doing so.
- thrownaway1337 8y ago
  Why did you want kids? I always felt like I should want to get married and that I should want kids, but I just... don't. The desire just isn't there. I'm 29 and have been with my partner for long enough that marriage and likely kids are now the next stops on the what you're supposed to do in life train. And I guess it's not that I actively don't want it. I just don't feel an inclination toward or away from it. There's just kind of an absent feeling about it... There's not anything internal making me want it (there is external pressure from my partner though who does want to get married and from society who expects us to get married). Does this feeling change? Or am I just weird? Or should I just do it anyway?
  - captain_perl 8y ago
    Most women in a relationship will emphatically tell you when they want to get engaged, married or have kids. They also have a biological clock to have kids before they're 35, and most listen to that clock. Men don't have that clock, so there's different types and levels of motivation. In my case, I wasn't interested in having kids until my late 40s, when the circumstances were convincing (responsible partner, as late in life as reasonably possible.) Although I prefer being around adults, I understand that kids are doing their job when they require attention. I find my "clone" to be a plus overall, though expensive. Career-wise, I vaguely thought having kids would be an advantage somehow, but I was incorrect. In the USA, companies don't care about employees ("at will employment"), and the same is true about your family.

jd75 8y ago

I'm not sure I could identify my "core values" in a crowd -- where I feel lucky is in the "healthy discussions". My husband and I don't hit each other with too many of the Four Horsemen: https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/ https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-c...

poulsbohemian 8y ago

I was married for 17 years, for about the last ten unhappily, and together with that person for about twenty. You absolutely nailed it - if the values are in sync, it works. Unfortunately sometimes values shift as life goes on.

dsajames 8y ago

Wow. Very well said. I have had years of unsettled conflicts because I didn't do this when I married.