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I have very mixed feelings about this -- I walk and bicycle quite a lot, so I'm not deeply engaged with driving being fun, nor do I think it's really a great th

I have very mixed feelings about this -- I walk and bicycle quite a lot, so I'm not deeply engaged with driving being fun, nor do I think it's really a great thing if drivers are having fun driving. Fun means more people spending more time on the roads endangering my life. But on the other hand, I learned on a stick. It really is more fun and I miss it.

mulmen 8y ago
I don't think fun has to equal unsafe. Manuals provide an opportunity to have fun doing things like matching downshifts and thinking about what you are doing. Both can be done within the confines of safe, legal operation.
- arielweisberg 8y ago
  And this is where the MX-5 and other suitably configured cars excel. They give you a sense of motion and acceleration at legal and safe speeds that a typical car won't. Even some that are supposed to be sporty, but define sporty as "more power." Most cars are designed to make you feel nothing and hear nothing. Nothing from the road and nothing from the engine.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I own a few motorcycles and the biggest one has a 450cc motor for this very reason.
- InitialLastName 8y ago
  I think GP's point is that people who have fun driving drive more frequently, which is inherently unsafe.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    It’s unclear to me that more driving equates to more danger. Driving is currently very unsafe but that is a product of the drivers. If drivers were safer driving itself would also be safer.
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      Every extra person driving a car adds to the total risk to everyone. I'm of the understanding that "safer" driving is a function with an asymptote well above zero, i.e. there's only so much that a person's skill as a safe driver will improve the net safety of the system. I'd like to add that I'm not just talking about the safety of the extra person driving; there's also the safety of the other road users, whether in cars, on motorcycles, on bicycles, or on foot. An extra driver on the road raises the net risk for everyone. Additionally, in my experience the intersection of "drives for fun" and "drives safely" is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.
  - sevensor 8y ago
    Indeed. As a cyclist, I'm absolutely safer when there is less traffic. Less traffic means motorists have fewer other moving objects to distract them from not killing me.

mulmen 8y ago

I don't think fun has to equal unsafe. Manuals provide an opportunity to have fun doing things like matching downshifts and thinking about what you are doing. Both can be done within the confines of safe, legal operation.

arielweisberg 8y ago
And this is where the MX-5 and other suitably configured cars excel. They give you a sense of motion and acceleration at legal and safe speeds that a typical car won't. Even some that are supposed to be sporty, but define sporty as "more power." Most cars are designed to make you feel nothing and hear nothing. Nothing from the road and nothing from the engine.
- mulmen 8y ago
  It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I own a few motorcycles and the biggest one has a 450cc motor for this very reason.
InitialLastName 8y ago
I think GP's point is that people who have fun driving drive more frequently, which is inherently unsafe.
- mulmen 8y ago
  It’s unclear to me that more driving equates to more danger. Driving is currently very unsafe but that is a product of the drivers. If drivers were safer driving itself would also be safer.
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    Every extra person driving a car adds to the total risk to everyone. I'm of the understanding that "safer" driving is a function with an asymptote well above zero, i.e. there's only so much that a person's skill as a safe driver will improve the net safety of the system. I'd like to add that I'm not just talking about the safety of the extra person driving; there's also the safety of the other road users, whether in cars, on motorcycles, on bicycles, or on foot. An extra driver on the road raises the net risk for everyone. Additionally, in my experience the intersection of "drives for fun" and "drives safely" is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.
- sevensor 8y ago
  Indeed. As a cyclist, I'm absolutely safer when there is less traffic. Less traffic means motorists have fewer other moving objects to distract them from not killing me.