5 ms·

It's a myth that Brazilians are more creative. Doing business in Brazil is incredibly difficult - lack of talent, ethics and terrible financial sector.

by rs86 8y ago

anderber 8y ago
This seems to be a very myopic view of a large and diverse country. I've seen both extremes when it comes to talent and ethics.
- jorblumesea 8y ago
  Have you been to Brazil? Brazilians take the entire day off to go to the bank because it takes that long and processes are so inefficient. I was shocked at how non functional the society is as a whole. Their national museum just burned down because the country couldn't even allocate funding properly. You expect running a business there is going to be a simple and transparent affair? This is not a knock on the people themselves. They're smart, caring and competent, but to be honest, the country is a mess.
  - adnzzzzZ 8y ago
    As a Brazilian I'm not going to deny that the country is full of problems, but the person you replied to said that the country is big and that both extremes exist. No need to focus only on the negatives when the country has many things going for it.
    - jorblumesea 8y ago
      Completely agree, pretty inflammatory and vaguely racist comment. I think we can also agree things are far more negative than positive nowadays. Temer is really just the another nail in the coffin for functional Brazilian society. Things are looking much more bleak compared to a decade ago.
      - adnzzzzZ 8y ago
        I actually disagree and I'm highly optimistic for the future of my country. But I'm aware that I'm a minority when it comes to this opinion.
        jorblumesea 8y ago
        That's fair, keep the positivity alive! :) But most Brazilians I've talked paint the picture as a dire situation, unfortunately. Best of luck.
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    >Brazilians take the entire day off to go to the bank That is completely false. I can’t imagine where you got this from. Brazilian baking is years ahead of the US, not that it represents a high bar.
    - diego_moita 8y ago
      > I can’t imagine where you got this from. Perhaps from daily life? There are long lines on most bank branches I go to, unless you're wealthy enough for the manager to pamper you. Red tape in this country is so bad that there is a whole industry to avoid it ("despachantes"). BTW, the trick this industry uses to avoid banking lines is to hire old retired people to buck the line for them (there's a law here giving to old people that privilege). They basically screw everyone else by buying privileges. Some call it the "Brazilian touch" (jeitinho brasileiro), I call it corrupted morals. > Brazilian baking is years ahead of the US Really? To do online banking in your computer with Banco do Brasil you need to ask permission to your branch manager and install a specific virus on your computer. I believe the same goes for Bradesco and Itaú. Many ATMs and branches in small towns are being closed and leaving those places without financial services because mobs moved from big cities to rob those places without good police. And, guess what, people there can't do online banking.
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        Red tape is bad, but obiquious cellphones helps a lot. The US still uses checks and signed credit card receipts. Compared to that Brazil’s banking system is state of the art. >To do online banking in your computer with Banco do Brasil you need to ask permission to your branch manager and install a virus on your computer Yes, but most people use the phone app, which is ok. Banking on a computer is bad everywhere.
        afarrell 8y ago
        > and signed credit card receipts chip & pin rolled out a year and a half or so ago, including to a small general store in rural central Maine.
- diego_moita 8y ago
  > I've seen both extremes when it comes to talent and ethics. Extremes exist in every country but a bad average exists just in some. Brazilian average is bad.
lucashn 8y ago
Lack of competitive pay makes talent leave the country (source: I have many friends working in startups in USA due to better working conditions).
- rbanffy 8y ago
  Source, yours truly. But what drove me away was not the money - I make a lot more money now, but in a much more expensive place. Retirement projections remain firmly planted on the very same date since I left and aren't going to change much either way unless some major upheaval happens. What really drove me out was my lack of faith. Corruption was rampant (it was always like this, since well before I was born) but it was being investigated, in some cases more seriously than others, but the local equivalents to the DoJ and the FBI (I'm doing this for the Americans in the audience, hope it helps), for the first time since essentially ever, able to work free from executive interference and, unsurprisingly, uncovered a lot of misdeeds. With that, the perceived corruption skyrocketed, government popularity sunk, trust in the government went into a death spiral and the legislative and judiciary decided it'd be convenient to stage a coup (sorry, "impeachment" is not the right word) so that someone more malleable would be in power (there was even a phone recording stating that much). At that moment I was over for me. I grew up in post-64 coup Brazil and don't want my daughter to go through the same.
- malandrew 8y ago
  Couldn't agree more. Of all the engineers I worked with back in Brazil that I would happily work with again, more than 75% of them left Brazil. They now live in places like the San Francisco, Palo Alto, NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Berlin, Amsterdam, London. What's most ridiculous is that at the recent BayBrazil event here in São Paulo, I explicitly asked the panelists if the situation had changed since when I worked there a manager would make 2.5x to 3x what the ICs earned. Every single panelist dodged the question by spouting some bullshit about how people have other motivations besides money for staying in Brazil. Yeah, I'm sure a minority of them do, the majority however keep leaving.
dataker 8y ago
I'm Brazilian and you are completely correct.
epx 8y ago
I am Brazilian and it's been a year since I went into a bank to do anything. All expat friends say that Brazilian bank system is the best. This has a specific reason: inflation in 1980s imposed fast banking service.
- gdsimoes 8y ago
  I am a Brazilian currently living in Canada and I was very surprised when I discovered that Brazil’s banks are actually much better than Canada’s.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

It's a myth that Brazilians are more creative. Doing business in Brazil is incredibly difficult - lack of talent, ethics and terrible financial sector.

by rs86 8y ago

It's a myth that Brazilians are more creative. Doing business in Brazil is incredibly difficult - lack of talent, ethics and terrible financial sector.

anderber 8y ago

This seems to be a very myopic view of a large and diverse country. I've seen both extremes when it comes to talent and ethics.

jorblumesea 8y ago
Have you been to Brazil? Brazilians take the entire day off to go to the bank because it takes that long and processes are so inefficient. I was shocked at how non functional the society is as a whole. Their national museum just burned down because the country couldn't even allocate funding properly. You expect running a business there is going to be a simple and transparent affair? This is not a knock on the people themselves. They're smart, caring and competent, but to be honest, the country is a mess.
- adnzzzzZ 8y ago
  As a Brazilian I'm not going to deny that the country is full of problems, but the person you replied to said that the country is big and that both extremes exist. No need to focus only on the negatives when the country has many things going for it.
  - jorblumesea 8y ago
    Completely agree, pretty inflammatory and vaguely racist comment. I think we can also agree things are far more negative than positive nowadays. Temer is really just the another nail in the coffin for functional Brazilian society. Things are looking much more bleak compared to a decade ago.
    - adnzzzzZ 8y ago
      I actually disagree and I'm highly optimistic for the future of my country. But I'm aware that I'm a minority when it comes to this opinion.
      - jorblumesea 8y ago
        That's fair, keep the positivity alive! :) But most Brazilians I've talked paint the picture as a dire situation, unfortunately. Best of luck.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  >Brazilians take the entire day off to go to the bank That is completely false. I can’t imagine where you got this from. Brazilian baking is years ahead of the US, not that it represents a high bar.
  - diego_moita 8y ago
    > I can’t imagine where you got this from. Perhaps from daily life? There are long lines on most bank branches I go to, unless you're wealthy enough for the manager to pamper you. Red tape in this country is so bad that there is a whole industry to avoid it ("despachantes"). BTW, the trick this industry uses to avoid banking lines is to hire old retired people to buck the line for them (there's a law here giving to old people that privilege). They basically screw everyone else by buying privileges. Some call it the "Brazilian touch" (jeitinho brasileiro), I call it corrupted morals. > Brazilian baking is years ahead of the US Really? To do online banking in your computer with Banco do Brasil you need to ask permission to your branch manager and install a specific virus on your computer. I believe the same goes for Bradesco and Itaú. Many ATMs and branches in small towns are being closed and leaving those places without financial services because mobs moved from big cities to rob those places without good police. And, guess what, people there can't do online banking.
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      Red tape is bad, but obiquious cellphones helps a lot. The US still uses checks and signed credit card receipts. Compared to that Brazil’s banking system is state of the art. >To do online banking in your computer with Banco do Brasil you need to ask permission to your branch manager and install a virus on your computer Yes, but most people use the phone app, which is ok. Banking on a computer is bad everywhere.
      - afarrell 8y ago
        > and signed credit card receipts chip & pin rolled out a year and a half or so ago, including to a small general store in rural central Maine.
diego_moita 8y ago
> I've seen both extremes when it comes to talent and ethics. Extremes exist in every country but a bad average exists just in some. Brazilian average is bad.

lucashn 8y ago

Lack of competitive pay makes talent leave the country (source: I have many friends working in startups in USA due to better working conditions).

rbanffy 8y ago
Source, yours truly. But what drove me away was not the money - I make a lot more money now, but in a much more expensive place. Retirement projections remain firmly planted on the very same date since I left and aren't going to change much either way unless some major upheaval happens. What really drove me out was my lack of faith. Corruption was rampant (it was always like this, since well before I was born) but it was being investigated, in some cases more seriously than others, but the local equivalents to the DoJ and the FBI (I'm doing this for the Americans in the audience, hope it helps), for the first time since essentially ever, able to work free from executive interference and, unsurprisingly, uncovered a lot of misdeeds. With that, the perceived corruption skyrocketed, government popularity sunk, trust in the government went into a death spiral and the legislative and judiciary decided it'd be convenient to stage a coup (sorry, "impeachment" is not the right word) so that someone more malleable would be in power (there was even a phone recording stating that much). At that moment I was over for me. I grew up in post-64 coup Brazil and don't want my daughter to go through the same.
malandrew 8y ago
Couldn't agree more. Of all the engineers I worked with back in Brazil that I would happily work with again, more than 75% of them left Brazil. They now live in places like the San Francisco, Palo Alto, NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Berlin, Amsterdam, London. What's most ridiculous is that at the recent BayBrazil event here in São Paulo, I explicitly asked the panelists if the situation had changed since when I worked there a manager would make 2.5x to 3x what the ICs earned. Every single panelist dodged the question by spouting some bullshit about how people have other motivations besides money for staying in Brazil. Yeah, I'm sure a minority of them do, the majority however keep leaving.

dataker 8y ago

I'm Brazilian and you are completely correct.

epx 8y ago

I am Brazilian and it's been a year since I went into a bank to do anything. All expat friends say that Brazilian bank system is the best. This has a specific reason: inflation in 1980s imposed fast banking service.

gdsimoes 8y ago
I am a Brazilian currently living in Canada and I was very surprised when I discovered that Brazil’s banks are actually much better than Canada’s.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]