4 ms·

Yeah, definitely no advertising, particularly overseas, that could have contributed to WhatsApp's growth. No features added like large groups that could be used

Yeah, definitely no advertising, particularly overseas, that could have contributed to WhatsApp's growth. No features added like large groups that could be used to spread disinformation. WhatsApp chats are used to influence advertising, so that goes out the window. This happened because WhatsApp provided the means for it to happen – and you can speculate all day long about whether some other app would have made it possible, and whether it would have happened, but what you're saying is speculation, and what I'm citing are facts. None of it was intentionally malicious – but not considering the moral, ethical, political ramifications of how your product will be used is negligent. This is negligence, not malice. Platforms aren't neutral.

cwyers 8y ago
Okay, but what about WhatsApp made this possible that wouldn't have been possible with plain old SMS/MMS? (Or even just the telephone? I guess no video over the telephone, but rumors and lies can certainly spread that way.) It's not like Facebook, where there's some kind of algorithmic curation. This is entirely peer-to-peer content distribution.
- Tempest1981 8y ago
  Sounds like the videos were very shocking and quickly forwarded - instigating a mob mentality: “each said they’d done so after watching shocking videos on WhatsApp warning of outsiders abducting children.”
robjan 8y ago
How are WhatsApp chats used to influence advertising? They are end to end encrypted.
- gooddelta 8y ago
  That's partially true – but end-to-end encryption is different than zero-knowledge. I design the latter. Although LifeHacker isn't a great source, they do a good job of pulling more credible sources together into this article: https://lifehacker.com/stop-using-whatsapp-if-you-care-about-your-privacy-1825719172 https://lifehacker.com/stop-using-whatsapp-if-you-care-about...
lxrbst 8y ago
It's a chat application. How people can be so ignorant to abuse such a simple thing is beyond me. As much as I hate Facebook, I don't get how you can put this on WhatsApp. From the looks of it, you could've achieved the same thing with someone printing and spreading around fliers. Doesn't mean a printing company selling printers should consider the "moral, ethical, political ramifications".
- gooddelta 8y ago
  Printing creates a barrier to entry. You have to have enough conviction in your idea, and the determination to actually write the statement, lay it out, and print and distribute it. You don't just type "oh shit lxrbst should be hanged lmao," hit send, and reach 100 people. You're basically describing why journalism is important, and still has an important place in our society.
  - sooheon 8y ago
    Journalism is important, but not to the exclusion of other forms of communication. If your thrust is that barriers to entry for communication is good because it puts mass comm. powers in the hands of the few(er), I cannot agree.
    - mijamo 8y ago
      Ironic to post such a comment in a platform that puts a high barrier for communication through moderation and guidelines.
stickfigure 8y ago
The logical conclusion of this perspective is that human beings should not be allowed to freely communicate in groups. I'd rather not live in your world. Technology can't fix broken human beings. There is a moral failure here, but it isn't Facebook's. Blaming WhatsApp at best makes the real problem harder to fix, and at worst makes excuses for the actors in this horrorshow.
- gooddelta 8y ago
  Speed and reach, my friend. Lynchings happened in the US a while ago, but they weren't a universal phenomenon. A platform with the speed and reach of WhatsApp makes disinformation more potent. Nowhere in my post did I suggest human beings shouldn't be allowed to freely communicate – what I'm suggesting is that maybe we haven't built the right tools to enable that safely, and instead, we're exacerbating the "broken human beings" side of this issue.
  - lxrbst 8y ago
    > we're exacerbating the "broken human beings" side of this issue. There is no other side of this issue. This could and probably have happened with sms. This is 100% the mob's fault.
    - user111233 8y ago
      SMS costs a lot in 3rd world countries. We are probably seeing these issues now because this is the first time these people have had access to cheap and easy communication. The rest of the world was eased in to it with email and the web but these countries are being dropped in to the deep end.
      - stickfigure 8y ago
        Subtext: You primitives aren't mature enough to communicate in groups without supervision. Don't you find that an offensively paternalistic thing to tell whole societies?
  - 8y ago
nradov 8y ago
A chat app is about as neutral as platforms get. What specifically should they have done differently?

cwyers 8y ago

Okay, but what about WhatsApp made this possible that wouldn't have been possible with plain old SMS/MMS? (Or even just the telephone? I guess no video over the telephone, but rumors and lies can certainly spread that way.) It's not like Facebook, where there's some kind of algorithmic curation. This is entirely peer-to-peer content distribution.

Tempest1981 8y ago
Sounds like the videos were very shocking and quickly forwarded - instigating a mob mentality: “each said they’d done so after watching shocking videos on WhatsApp warning of outsiders abducting children.”

robjan 8y ago

How are WhatsApp chats used to influence advertising? They are end to end encrypted.

gooddelta 8y ago
That's partially true – but end-to-end encryption is different than zero-knowledge. I design the latter. Although LifeHacker isn't a great source, they do a good job of pulling more credible sources together into this article: https://lifehacker.com/stop-using-whatsapp-if-you-care-about-your-privacy-1825719172 https://lifehacker.com/stop-using-whatsapp-if-you-care-about...

lxrbst 8y ago

It's a chat application. How people can be so ignorant to abuse such a simple thing is beyond me. As much as I hate Facebook, I don't get how you can put this on WhatsApp. From the looks of it, you could've achieved the same thing with someone printing and spreading around fliers. Doesn't mean a printing company selling printers should consider the "moral, ethical, political ramifications".

gooddelta 8y ago
Printing creates a barrier to entry. You have to have enough conviction in your idea, and the determination to actually write the statement, lay it out, and print and distribute it. You don't just type "oh shit lxrbst should be hanged lmao," hit send, and reach 100 people. You're basically describing why journalism is important, and still has an important place in our society.
- sooheon 8y ago
  Journalism is important, but not to the exclusion of other forms of communication. If your thrust is that barriers to entry for communication is good because it puts mass comm. powers in the hands of the few(er), I cannot agree.
  - mijamo 8y ago
    Ironic to post such a comment in a platform that puts a high barrier for communication through moderation and guidelines.

stickfigure 8y ago

The logical conclusion of this perspective is that human beings should not be allowed to freely communicate in groups. I'd rather not live in your world. Technology can't fix broken human beings. There is a moral failure here, but it isn't Facebook's. Blaming WhatsApp at best makes the real problem harder to fix, and at worst makes excuses for the actors in this horrorshow.

gooddelta 8y ago
Speed and reach, my friend. Lynchings happened in the US a while ago, but they weren't a universal phenomenon. A platform with the speed and reach of WhatsApp makes disinformation more potent. Nowhere in my post did I suggest human beings shouldn't be allowed to freely communicate – what I'm suggesting is that maybe we haven't built the right tools to enable that safely, and instead, we're exacerbating the "broken human beings" side of this issue.
- lxrbst 8y ago
  > we're exacerbating the "broken human beings" side of this issue. There is no other side of this issue. This could and probably have happened with sms. This is 100% the mob's fault.
  - user111233 8y ago
    SMS costs a lot in 3rd world countries. We are probably seeing these issues now because this is the first time these people have had access to cheap and easy communication. The rest of the world was eased in to it with email and the web but these countries are being dropped in to the deep end.
    - stickfigure 8y ago
      Subtext: You primitives aren't mature enough to communicate in groups without supervision. Don't you find that an offensively paternalistic thing to tell whole societies?
- 8y ago

nradov 8y ago

A chat app is about as neutral as platforms get. What specifically should they have done differently?