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Why rebel groups love the Toyota Hilux
- reitzensteinm 16y agoSee also: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- jcromartie 16y agoInteresting. You think this is PR? I was actually just looking for an old Tacoma/Hilux, although I first heard about their legendary status on Top Gear.
- yummyfajitas 16y agoIt's definitely PR. "Buy a Toyota Hilux - the only truck endorsed by the Taliban, the Janjaweed and the Islamic Courts of Somalia." They could even get Joshua 'General Butt Naked' Blahyi as their spokesperson. "After sacrificing a small child to the devil, I like to strip naked and drive away in my Toyota Hilux. No matter what the terrain, my Hilux will help me escape from angry parents and local militias out for justice."
- barrkel 16y agoExactly. It's "edgy".
- nl 16y agoIf you are arguing that this is a PR thing, it's possible that getting it in the NY Times was, but there is a pretty solid basis to the story. In fact, most of the reporting seems to be an update of a few War Nerd pieces combined together. (I'm not implying plagiarism, just that Toyotas are massively over represented in low-intensity conflicts, and that more than one person has noticed it)
- jchrisa 16y agoThe Hilux is featured prominently in William Gibson's new book. This might be a reason for the recent interest.
- JohnFritzen 16y agoI have suspected "product placement" in his books before. Volkswagen Phaeton's seemed a bit overly prominent in "Spook Country".
- modoc 16y agoI think he's just fascinated by certain things. The Phaeton is an amazing car and outside of VW's normal lineup. The Hilux is huge all over the world, and virtually unheard of here. And yes, the Jankel armored version is pretty impressive:) Having met him, I HIGHLY doubt he's paid for product placement. I think he's just INTO things in a very geeky way. He focused on Curtas more than Phaetons anyhow:)
- m0nastic 16y agoYeah, I concur. He's talked about it on Twitter (people have asked why he mentions specific products) and he said that he just likes to include things he finds interesting. I think for the current trilogy it actually works really well, as it keeps everything grounded in reality.
- whatusername 16y agoI'm not sure about the original hilux on top gear, but I'm pretty suspicious about some more recent episodes. There was an episode in S15 where May drove to the top of a Volcano (in a water/alcohol-cooled hilux). And every shot of the car looked like it had just been freshly polished/waxed.
- forgottenpaswrd 16y agoIt could be PR. PR use to hide facts, but in this particular case what they say is real, not fake. When my uncle(missionary) showed me photos of his travels around South America and Africa all the cars were Toyota pick ups(Venezuela, Amazon Jungle, Chile, Bolivia, Colombia). When I asked him he told me the word "Toyota" in many places is what we in Spain call "4x4".
- dazzawazza 16y agoFurther evidence from Top Gear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkedyQZfwQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkedyQZfwQ
- hartror 16y agoBeat me to in! :)
- JonnieCache 16y agoHere's the second part where they put it on top of the towerblock and demolish it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZDtC9kjVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZDtC9kjVk
- InclinedPlane 16y agoDemolish the building, yes.
- anonymous245 16y agoWhich Unix kernel is the analog of this truck? i.e., keeps chugging under extreme CPU/memory/IO/interrupts/multithreading load?
- mhb 16y agoThe AK-47: 'The Gun' That Changed The Battlefield Transcript of Terry Gross' interview with the author: http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=130493013 http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?story...
- nl 16y agohttp://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html seems relevant when talking about the AK-47
- eru 16y agoWhy? The AK-47 seems quite sophisticated.
- TY 16y agoAK-47 is the simplest automatic weapon that I've seen. When I was in high-school I could take it apart in 7-8 seconds. It's simplicity and reliability are remarkably astounding.
- philwelch 16y agoYou took apart AK-47's in high school?
- tfh 16y agoI think he meant Al Qaeda High School.
- iuytguyhj 16y agoLos Angeles public school ?
- TY 16y agoWhen Soviet Union still existed, we had weekly "civil defence" classes where we were taught a number of interesting things such as what to do in case of a nuclear attack, why we will win the war and what to do with the weapons (boys) or how to cater for the wounded (girls). Disassembly/assembly of AK47 was one of routine exercises, we even had competitions on who could do it the fastest. Those were mandatory classes, just like regular subjects (math, physics and etc) with the exams and grades counting towards your equivalent of GPA. Some schools had after hours clubs where those who were interested could learn more. I liked those classes a lot, because we got to shoot some weapons (mostly air guns, but sometimes small caliber rifles) for free. The teacher was a retired sergeant who taught us sharpshooting even though his eyesight was so poor that he had to wear two pairs of glasses, one on top of another. True story...
- easyfrag 16y agoJust as interesting to me is how the maple leaf on the vehicle came to signal high quality, a notion that then went viral to the point that people tattoo themselves with it.
- run4yourlives 16y agoI wonder if it was just the trucks that caused that though... Canadian troops have been operating in Afghanistan since 2001... many of them have maple leaf tattoos... (I should know, I was one)
- notahacker 16y agoreminds me of the time when every fishing boat in England flew the Canadian flag because it signalled opposition to the EU Common Fisheries Policy and alleged Spanish over-fishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War
- gaius 16y agoWhy did the Canadians send the trucks in the first place? I assume it was when the Taleban were fighting the Soviets for us.
- sedachv 16y ago"when the Taleban were fighting the Soviets for us." Was this right before Regan sent lasers to space and won the cold war? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan
- ZeroGravitas 16y agoStrange that it's so prevalent globally and yet the US commander can still claim that it's "a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda". Similar to the story posted here a while ago about people being arrested as terrorists on the evidence that they wore some totally generic casio wristwatch. Wikipedia's List of Guantanamo Bay detainees accused of possessing Casio watches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainee...
- phreeza 16y agoI lived in the Zambian bush for a year, there it was usually a sign you were dealing with the catholic church... thats the truck the priests drove. edit: Here its being used for public transportation, tail gate town for increased storage space http://yfrog.com/c8fxbj http://yfrog.com/c8fxbj
- TallGuyShort 16y agoRhodesian War?
- metageek 16y agoStrange that it's so prevalent globally and yet the US commander can still claim that it's "a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda". He was a little more careful than that: "It’s a bit of a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda when you come across them in Pakistan.".
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- bron 16y agoThe white coloured Hilux are used in Singapore by the Police force.
- juancferrer 16y agoI got that watch for Xmas 1995. When I was 7. I guess because it's the cheapest "name brand" watch. And it's basically kid proof.
- frbnh 16y agoIt's interesting that Afghan (presumably Islamist) insurgents would have any tatoos, considering that these are frowned upon in Islam. EDIT: Not sure what's getting a negative reaction here. I was just pointing out an apparent inconsistency in the story - interviewees/journalists are known to embellish sometimes and they can get tripped up on little details.
- chopsueyar 16y agoor Jews that live in Tel Aviv? It's interesting that American (presumably Christian) citizens would murder, considering that murder is frowned upon in Christianity.
- frbnh 16y agoIf they are theocrats who "locked men in shipping containers" till their beards grew (article), then the fact that they have tattoos in violation of religious norms is odd. Either that or someone embellished the story.
- chopsueyar 16y agoSurely you are not suggesting the Taliban represents the ideal implementation (the norm) of Islam? The full quote is from the penultimate paragraph (which, btw, is referring to a New York Times article from November 23, 2001)... The New York Times piece on Mullah Omar’s car also noted that during Taliban rule in Afghanistan, the Hilux and its larger sibling the Landcruiser “provided ideal platforms for intimidation and enforcement.” The Taliban rode around “ready to leap down and beat women for showing a glimpse of ankle or to lock a man in a shipping container for three weeks until his beard grew to the approved length. Or, most dismal, to drag an accused adulterer or blasphemer to the soccer stadium for execution.” Given that this story was recently submitted, it can be gathered that the tattoos observed by David Kilcullen were not from Taliban fighters in 2001. The article does not indicate any of the tattooed insurgent fighters are Taliban, or even Muslim. My original point being, every religion has various tenets which are followed/obeyed in different degrees by various members of said religion. Some call them "sects" or "denominations".
- wr1472 16y agoSingle page link: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html?GT1=43002# http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the...
- CountHackulus 16y agoIt's an extremely popular and durable truck, and yet in North America we don't get to have it. Blame it on people wanting bigger and comfier trucks instead of real workhorses.
- pepsi_can 16y agoI thought it was known as the Tacoma in North America?
- jakarta 16y agoTacoma looks the same but it is overall weaker than the Hilux
- skorgu 16y agoMy understanding is that the (no longer produced) T100 is the closest equivalent NA gets to the Hilux, it has a fully boxed frame and was offered in a 1-ton form (with larger brakes). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_T100 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_T100
- city41 16y agoAre you sure about that? The Wikipedia articles for the Hilux[1] and the Tacoma[2] make no mention of this. The Hilux article heavily implies the Tacoma is the same truck, just under a different name. Ah way down in the sixth generation section it says: "The Tacoma frame differs from the Hilux frame, although both appear similar from the outside. Both the Tacoma and Hilux variants are sold in Mexico." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma
- kls 16y agoThe Hilux has a solid front axle while the Tacoma has a wishbone suspension, IIRC. The latter while good for high speed travel on road and sand, lacks performance in wilderness and rocky terrain. It is the reason the Hilux outperforms the HUMVEE in Afghanistan and Pakistan. As well the Tacoma does not have a diesel option (one of the main reasons it survived submersion). On another note the Suzuki Samurai is another off-road vehicle that is virtually indestructible.
- metageek 16y ago"When they dug it out of the rubble, all it took to get it running again was hammers, wrenches, and WD-40." OK, I'm impressed.
- ulysses 16y agoIts frame was broken, but they (Top Gear) drove it off the rubble and, later, into the studio. They ended up putting it up on display in their live studio, you can see it sometimes when the camera moves around.
- ErrantX 16y agoEven more impressive was when it got washed out to sea (possibly a later episode?) and they rescued it full of sand - all it took was a clean and some fiddling for the (clogged) engine to run again.
- tnorthcutt 16y agoOr when they torched it (literally dropped a large, burning torch in the cab).
- Groxx 16y agoAnd people wonder why cars have so many fiddly knobs and other things that break. You make a great, sturdy vehicle, everyone who needs it uses it, and your vehicle gets heavily associated with violent groups.
- bonzoesc 16y agoYou make a car with intricate, soft-touch interior engineering and you'll get a bigger profit margin from rich first-world people.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- maxklein 16y agoThe Hilux is also used by many oil companies in Africa, making it a status symbol, and so often purchased by people who have money/power and want to show off a bit. So it's not just practical reasons, the Hilux is a status car. It's also the best selling car in South Africa in total, so it's used as a normal vehicle, not just for offroad.
- binarycheese 16y agoNot ytue in West Africa. If you want to show status/money, get an Escalade or a Land Cruiser. I used a Hilux in West Cameroon on the muddy/mountain side roads in the rainy season. It is very reliable. Its predecessor - Toyota Stout, has no "Four-Wheel", yet on First Gear, it is more stable climbing muddy hills in bad weather than an F350 or any Chevy its size
- maxklein 16y agoThere are many status cars, just because a Hilux is one of them does not mean an Escalade or Land Cruiser is not. And cameroun is not "West Africa" according to the normal definition - it's central Africa. And I doubt that those American cars you mention are very popular across West Africa, usually Japanese cars or European cars are used.
- binarycheese 16y agoWest Cameroon (or Southern Cameroon) is West Africa. Cameroun (or La Republique du Cameroun or East Cameroon) is Central Africa
- spiffworks 16y agoThis reminds me of what the Indian government did to the Yamaha RX-135. It is probably the most sought after bike in India almost six years after its production was stopped because its power-to-weight ratio was so high that rebels in the north-east were using it as getaway vehicles(with a great amount of success). Its pick-up is unmatched to this day, and has incredible resale value.
- wwkeyboard 16y agoI think the Brotherhood of Nod called them "Technicals" as well.
- jaxonrice 16y agoArtic Trucks are busy building an awesome six wheeled variant of the Toyota Hilux which will be driving to the South Pole in December 2010 as part of the support team for a ski race. It sports 44 inch tires and a 400l fuel tank. http://www.arctictrucks.com/pages/4701 http://www.arctictrucks.com/pages/4701
- quellhorst 16y agoI love the Toyota FJ cruiser! Its utilitarian like the HiLux but available in the USA. The Tacoma and Tundra have interiors more like cars than a truck you can wash out the inside with a water hose with. It can carry a decent amount of ammo and guns. http://img.skitch.com/20101015-c25kibbi3nub61emqgb32mqpie.jpg http://img.skitch.com/20101015-c25kibbi3nub61emqgb32mqpie.jp...
- hugh3 16y agoThe FJ Cruiser is certainly built to look tough, and it has a bunch of near utalitarian elements, but I'd want to wait 30 years and see how many are still running before declaring that it actually is tough.
- quellhorst 16y agoI had a Toyota Tacoma before the FJ that had over 250,000 miles on when I sold it. So far I like the mechanical engineering more on this vehicle. There is even more room around the engine so its easier to work on and because of how the oil filter is placed, I can run full synthetic and change filters without losing much oil. With Toyota vehicles, the biggest thing to keep them running for a long time is doing maintenance. If done properly, they will last for longer than you want them. Also the off-road capabilities are awesome. It has done well in the sand, gravel, inclines, declines, snow, mud and water very well. Its exhilarating to easily get through conditions where others got stuck.
- Kadin 16y ago> because of how the oil filter is placed, I can run full synthetic and change filters without losing much oil. How much oil do you have to drain to change the filter? And do you just pour the drained oil back in or do you top it off with fresh oil? How often do you keep running the same oil through, anyway? Haven't heard of anyone doing that before; I'm intrigued.
- quellhorst 16y ago
- rdl 16y agoPlease note that the US military uses Hiluxes extensively in Iraq (and to some extent, in Afghanistan), too. We sold a bunch of Ford Rangers to the Iraqi and Afghan militaries (poor guys; those trucks are ok but the rear drum brakes consistently freeze up when parked in cold muddy conditions). The best truck is a hilux with the ignition rigged to just require a toggle switch to turn on, and the inverted "T" for center of gravity calculations when sling loading (and the dry weight in kilos marked on the side) on some duct tape on the side. Sometimes I've seen the rear seats turned sideways to serve as side gunners, with a pintle mount in the cargo bed (either on the light bar for forward arc only, or in the middle of the bed for 360 degree). Usually the US only does that with bigger trucks like the Silverado. I wish I could get a small common-rail diesel truck in the US, or maybe a diesel-electric hybrid, on the hilux chassis. A truck that size which could be a decent remote site electric generator would be amazing.
- FraaJad 16y agoKeep an eye out for the Mahindra&Mahindra(India) Diesel truck which should land in the US by 2011Q1.
- barredo 16y agoOr most Russian pick-ups
- FraaJad 16y agowhich Russian pick-ups are scheduled to be sold in US in the coming future?
- rdl 16y agoThe problem with small diesel trucks in the US, aside from consumer perception, is that certain states (e.g. California) have emissions regulations which make it very difficult to pass (particulates, nitrous oxides). Additionally, until 2008-2010, US diesel fuel was really high sulfur, which killed most emissions control systems. (the irony is now European fuel is higher sulfur). I think trucks under a certain weight had to comply with different emissions regulations (passenger car vs. truck), and without being able to sell in all 50 states, it was uneconomic to import.
- gursikh 16y agoTop Gear did a series of experiments a few years back to find out how indestructible the Hilux really is: http://goo.gl/WI7l http://goo.gl/WI7l See for yourselves.
- smackfu 16y agoSo is being on the top of a building being imploded really that bad? It's a free fall for most of it, but the impact is cushioned a bit by the layers below you collapsing when they hit the ground. And there is not much debris that will hit you if you are on the top. If they had parked it at the base, it would probably be flat.
- sliverstorm 16y agoWhen was the last time you tried dropping your car off a skyscraper?
- br1 16y agoI read somewhere that the prime SUV in the arab world was the Mitsubishi Pajero. The entire category was labeled "Pajero Jeep" in Pakistan. Of course, I can't find the article now.
- swah 16y agoWhich language does Toyota Hilux drivers program in?
- JohnFritzen 16y agoc
- rikthevik 16y agoI thought it was 4xFORTRAN. Ho ho ho.
- anabis 16y agoI am guessing Misra-C http://www.misra.org.uk/Activities/MISRAC/tabid/160/Default.aspx http://www.misra.org.uk/Activities/MISRAC/tabid/160/Default....
- jscore 16y agoSo instead of checking Edmunds for reliability, I should just check what the insurgents drive on warzones. Seriously, those guys have no alterior motives, they just need rock-hard reliability.
- tnorthcutt 16y agoulterior
- ab9 16y agoIt's a vote of confidence, yes, but insurgents look at more than just reliability when making their purchasing decisions. They also like the fact that Hilux-specific spare parts and expertise are relatively common in Afghanistan. And they like that they can add machine-gun turrets to it. Presumably you don't care about a truck's performance on those dimensions.
- smachimo 16y agoI started and ran an import company for 7 years up in Canada, importconcern.ca, and we imported cars and parts from Japan. All of the cars were typically quite cheap at auction, except for one specific model of the Hilux - the Pick-up model. The regular Hilux Surf would cost anywhere from $4,000-$6,000 in total (very cheap), but the Hilux Pick-ups would run $10,000+ for one in somewhat decent condition. We could never pinpoint exactly the reason for the higher Pick-up prices but we long suspected it was likely due to their possible use in war environments. And this article was interesting to read because it somewhat confirms our suspicion. Thanks for the post!
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- coryl 16y agoI've seen ImportConcern from some car forums before. JDM Skylines in particular have always been in demand, and everyone was looking/waiting for R32/R33/R34 GTR's. Small world, glad to know your business is still up and running!
- smachimo 16y agoThere are definitely tons of awesome cars coming out in the next few years. I actually sold IC two summers ago to one of our good customers and he is the one currently running the operation. Christian and I are now in the middle of building websites and hoping for one to gain some traction. It's definitely cool to see importconcern is a recognized company!
- rikthevik 16y agoI used to check your site all the time. When my big payoff comes, I'm buying a souped up AE86. :)
- smachimo 16y agoThat's awesome! We had some pretty crazy traffic over the years. The AE86 are also surprisingly expensive, but I think that mostly due to Initial D :P
- Poiesis 16y agoI own a somewhat related beast, a FJ60 Landcruiser. They hold up well. It's well established that for every make of car, there is at least one forum devoted to it. My favorite (also has Hilux content) is at http://forum.ih8mud.com http://forum.ih8mud.com.
- imasr 16y agoTop Gear made two episodes on the Indestructible Hilux (episodes five and six of series 3). Worth watching.