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Good timing, last thing Amazon will want right now is a battle with a union. Especially for a company they acquired so recently (shows that things got quickly w

Good timing, last thing Amazon will want right now is a battle with a union. Especially for a company they acquired so recently (shows that things got quickly worse with Amazon in charge). Good luck Whole Foods workers.

notyourwork 8y ago
I'm not sure this shows things got quickly worse. It may just show Whole Foods employees lost control they used to have but I think you are jumping to conclusions.
- amphibian87 8y ago
  Are you joking? This is Amazon, the company where warehouse workers have to pick an item with so little time, they have to jog around the warehouse. Workers urinating in bottles because using the bathroom during non breaks = termination. Oh, and those breaks last exactly 14 minutes and 59 seconds, because anything after is Bezos' time, and you will be reprimanded. While he is one of the richest people in the world, can't figure out how to spend it all. Literally throwing it away into a corporatefascist space program before he increases wages. Unions should quite obviously have formed by now.
  - PeakHackerNews 8y ago
    >corporatefascist space program This is it, ladies and gentlemen. After years of effort, we've finally done it. We've hit peak HackerNews. Please notice Dang's total refusal to intervene on the above pro-socialist and completely naked agitation Please notice Dang's complete dedication to intervene on this one instead.
  - 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
    > Unions should quite obviously have formed by now. Including the eng team. But the problem with unions is that over time they are corrupted, and quickly become inefficient bureaucratic institutions. I agree with your sentiment, but the reality is far murkier than that.
    - hardwaresofton 8y ago
      I feel like I'm the only one that ever asks this, but especially with the engineering team (and software engineers in general) why haven't robo-unions become a thing yet? While politics will be hard as always, instantly verifiable direct democracy is achievable with a distributed ledger + PGP... In addition to that I personally think that jobs that require you to be on pager duty at all should be paying way more than they are, but everyone accepts it without batting an eye.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - adrianN 8y ago
        Not everyone thinks that direct democracy is a good system.
        hardwaresofton 8y ago
        Cool, then do representative, or have a dictator or whatever other system people think is good -- the problem is that no one seems to be even trying. Ideally I'd love to even see multiple unions and some competition between them, that might be a better corruption control than anything people can think up.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Many very powerful groups benifit from people thinking that way. That does not mean unions are great just that they would get a lot of bad publicity regardless so you need to adjust for that. My personal experience is they are a large net positive for workers, but every mistake gets heavily publicized.
    - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
      > But the problem with unions is that over time they are corrupted, and quickly become inefficient bureaucratic institutions. Replace "unions" with "corporations" and the same is true.
  - unethical_ban 8y ago
    I'm going to side with the guy who got flagged. Calling a space venture "corporatefascist", which isn't even a proper formation of a portmanteau, is so blindingly ignorant and confused on arguments, I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll start with... how is space exploration in itself fascist?
    - amphibian87 8y ago
      space bar dude. It's Amazon that's fascist, obviously not "space exploration" you pedant. Antitrust laws are not being applied to them or Google, or FB, Uber. Etc.
      - unethical_ban 8y ago
        I also like the oxford comma. Something about how it makes a difference in the meaning of a sentence. I still think the term "fascist" is being waaay overused in politics, much less when describing a bullying, cheating behemoth.
  - biztos 8y ago
    > throwing it away into a corporatefascist space program Isn't it better to have some competition with the corporatefascist Musk Space and the corporatetourist Branson Space, than to not have it? (And I am pro-union, FWIW...)
- cliffordthedog 8y ago
  Workers had a good relationship with the employer previously. Company gets bought by Amazon, a company with a notorious reputation. Workers decide not long after that they now need a union to protect their interests. Perception wise, that seems like a direct line to "Amazon is a worse employer".
- akudha 8y ago
  Not sure if things have gone bad for employees (not a surprise though), but as a shopper, things have definitely gone bad. Most visible one is empty shelves, which is becoming more and more frequent. Maybe they did some "optimization", doesn't help shoppers though
  - a2tech 8y ago
    Yeah ours looks dingy now. It looks to me like either the employees have stoooed caring, management has changed their priorities, or the overall quality of goods has dropped in a short amount of time.
  - jabits 8y ago
    This seems to have been corrected at out local Whole Foods (Maui), but the upside is that the prices are much more reasonable, for still good quality. We used to just go there for "special" items, but are doing more general purpose shopping there now, and the tie-in with Amazon Prime is nice too.
  - kasey_junk 8y ago
    I was not a regular Whole Foods shopper but went into the local one the other day to get some things. I was shocked at the lack of items on the shelves. It reminded me of when our local co-op went out of business. Staples like bread & milk weren’t available. What is the end game on this strategy? Cause wrt the coop it was “go away forever”.
  - andrewprock 8y ago
    I went there the other day to buy tomatillos. They didn't have any, so I had to go to Smart and Final. When Whole Foods can't get produce that Smart and Final can, it tells me that they don't want to carry that produce.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      Whole Foods produce has been dreadful for years. As I understand it, that's the result of a deliberate shift from groceries to prepared foods ("stop in and pick up dinner for the night"). Amazon definitely didn't break Whole Foods produce. Whole Foods in Chicago does a good job with meat, dairy, and beer. We more or less treat it as a specialty store for those three categories, and buy everything else from local stores. Produce, in particular, is always better at Mexican grocery stores.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  They specifically mention that the equity program is only for more senior employees, where it used to be much more broad base.
- rexpop 8y ago
  When you read about the Atlantic Slave Trade, do you say: > I'm not sure this shows things got quickly worse. It may just show enslaved Africans lost control they used to have.

notyourwork 8y ago

I'm not sure this shows things got quickly worse. It may just show Whole Foods employees lost control they used to have but I think you are jumping to conclusions.

amphibian87 8y ago
Are you joking? This is Amazon, the company where warehouse workers have to pick an item with so little time, they have to jog around the warehouse. Workers urinating in bottles because using the bathroom during non breaks = termination. Oh, and those breaks last exactly 14 minutes and 59 seconds, because anything after is Bezos' time, and you will be reprimanded. While he is one of the richest people in the world, can't figure out how to spend it all. Literally throwing it away into a corporatefascist space program before he increases wages. Unions should quite obviously have formed by now.
- PeakHackerNews 8y ago
  >corporatefascist space program This is it, ladies and gentlemen. After years of effort, we've finally done it. We've hit peak HackerNews. Please notice Dang's total refusal to intervene on the above pro-socialist and completely naked agitation Please notice Dang's complete dedication to intervene on this one instead.
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  > Unions should quite obviously have formed by now. Including the eng team. But the problem with unions is that over time they are corrupted, and quickly become inefficient bureaucratic institutions. I agree with your sentiment, but the reality is far murkier than that.
  - hardwaresofton 8y ago
    I feel like I'm the only one that ever asks this, but especially with the engineering team (and software engineers in general) why haven't robo-unions become a thing yet? While politics will be hard as always, instantly verifiable direct democracy is achievable with a distributed ledger + PGP... In addition to that I personally think that jobs that require you to be on pager duty at all should be paying way more than they are, but everyone accepts it without batting an eye.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Not everyone thinks that direct democracy is a good system.
      - hardwaresofton 8y ago
        Cool, then do representative, or have a dictator or whatever other system people think is good -- the problem is that no one seems to be even trying. Ideally I'd love to even see multiple unions and some competition between them, that might be a better corruption control than anything people can think up.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Many very powerful groups benifit from people thinking that way. That does not mean unions are great just that they would get a lot of bad publicity regardless so you need to adjust for that. My personal experience is they are a large net positive for workers, but every mistake gets heavily publicized.
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    > But the problem with unions is that over time they are corrupted, and quickly become inefficient bureaucratic institutions. Replace "unions" with "corporations" and the same is true.
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  I'm going to side with the guy who got flagged. Calling a space venture "corporatefascist", which isn't even a proper formation of a portmanteau, is so blindingly ignorant and confused on arguments, I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll start with... how is space exploration in itself fascist?
  - amphibian87 8y ago
    space bar dude. It's Amazon that's fascist, obviously not "space exploration" you pedant. Antitrust laws are not being applied to them or Google, or FB, Uber. Etc.
    - unethical_ban 8y ago
      I also like the oxford comma. Something about how it makes a difference in the meaning of a sentence. I still think the term "fascist" is being waaay overused in politics, much less when describing a bullying, cheating behemoth.
- biztos 8y ago
  > throwing it away into a corporatefascist space program Isn't it better to have some competition with the corporatefascist Musk Space and the corporatetourist Branson Space, than to not have it? (And I am pro-union, FWIW...)
cliffordthedog 8y ago
Workers had a good relationship with the employer previously. Company gets bought by Amazon, a company with a notorious reputation. Workers decide not long after that they now need a union to protect their interests. Perception wise, that seems like a direct line to "Amazon is a worse employer".
akudha 8y ago
Not sure if things have gone bad for employees (not a surprise though), but as a shopper, things have definitely gone bad. Most visible one is empty shelves, which is becoming more and more frequent. Maybe they did some "optimization", doesn't help shoppers though
- a2tech 8y ago
  Yeah ours looks dingy now. It looks to me like either the employees have stoooed caring, management has changed their priorities, or the overall quality of goods has dropped in a short amount of time.
- jabits 8y ago
  This seems to have been corrected at out local Whole Foods (Maui), but the upside is that the prices are much more reasonable, for still good quality. We used to just go there for "special" items, but are doing more general purpose shopping there now, and the tie-in with Amazon Prime is nice too.
- kasey_junk 8y ago
  I was not a regular Whole Foods shopper but went into the local one the other day to get some things. I was shocked at the lack of items on the shelves. It reminded me of when our local co-op went out of business. Staples like bread & milk weren’t available. What is the end game on this strategy? Cause wrt the coop it was “go away forever”.
- andrewprock 8y ago
  I went there the other day to buy tomatillos. They didn't have any, so I had to go to Smart and Final. When Whole Foods can't get produce that Smart and Final can, it tells me that they don't want to carry that produce.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    Whole Foods produce has been dreadful for years. As I understand it, that's the result of a deliberate shift from groceries to prepared foods ("stop in and pick up dinner for the night"). Amazon definitely didn't break Whole Foods produce. Whole Foods in Chicago does a good job with meat, dairy, and beer. We more or less treat it as a specialty store for those three categories, and buy everything else from local stores. Produce, in particular, is always better at Mexican grocery stores.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
They specifically mention that the equity program is only for more senior employees, where it used to be much more broad base.
rexpop 8y ago
When you read about the Atlantic Slave Trade, do you say: > I'm not sure this shows things got quickly worse. It may just show enslaved Africans lost control they used to have.