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I think this approach is self-defeating. You could use it to teach your daughter (or son) to take math quizzes well, but you will never use it to inspire them t

by asolove 16y ago

I think this approach is self-defeating. You could use it to teach your daughter (or son) to take math quizzes well, but you will never use it to inspire them to appreciate the beauty of math. In my experience, most of these "make-learning-fun" tools are really about making learning independent enough that parents don't have to participate. If you want any third grader to love math, have her mom and dad cajole and joke and help and love her while she is learning it. I learned my multiplication tables because my father would teach me bits of algebra, but only after I could get the flash cards right. He wasn't distracting me, he was rooting for me, showing me the underlying beauty of math, while also demanding I get the basic memorization right.

tesseract 16y ago
> you will never use it to inspire them to appreciate the beauty of math. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
dtran 16y ago
I don't think he spent time making a custom iPad app for his daughter so he could make learning independent enough to not participate. He was merely trying to apply one of his strengths (programming), his background (a startup designing educational games), and background knowledge (knowing his daughter loved Harry Potter) to try to create a better learning experience for his daughter, which is something I think every good educator, whether it's a teacher, parent, or peer, should do. You have to teach people to your strengths and their strengths - if he was an author and chose to teach math to his daughter in the context of elaborate stories and fairy tales, would you call that self-defeating as well? This reminded me of Randy Pausch's last lecture (if you haven't had a chance to watch it, I highly recommend it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo). Teaching kids is all about headfakes* - you are't encouraging them to play soccer so they can go and play in the World Cup, but rather so they have a fun context to learn about things like hard work, practice, and teamwork. Analogously, I think this personalized Harry Potter app just teaches his daughter that learning doesn't always have to feel like work, not specifically that she should spend all day trying to get praises from Hermoine and British men answering math problems. * Disclaimer: I don't have kids and know little to nothing about raising or educating kids.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >you are't encouraging them to play soccer so they can go and play in the World Cup, but rather so they have a fun context to learn about things like hard work, practice, and teamwork I'm sure many people (parents|teachers|other educators)see things like sports in this way. Personally I'm teaching my kids football because I enjoy kicking a football around and playing the game - it's not a direct proxy for learning something else, that is not the motivation. The reason I'm teaching my eldest about maths is because I find it interesting, stimulating and often fun; not because I see it as a gateway to being an accountant or whatever. Having said that I see nothing novel educationally in the article except the very specific combination of movie franchise + ipad + maths. Remember Britney Spears being used to teach physics a few years ago? Slightly OT: I don't think his reasons as stated indemnify him from a successful claim of copyright infringement. He chose the specific franchise as a promotional tool both for his blog and for, it seems, KnowPro Apps. This was apparently a decision rooted in the profitable promotion of business entities. The fact that the app he mention itself was created for sole personal use is immaterial. If there is a KnowPro paid for this app in any way then I'd expect a successful suit could follow. IANA©L
  - mcyger 16y ago
    Thanks for your feedback. I think the novelty comes in exactly what you state, and I think that the educational system relies too heavily on the status quo. There would be nothing wrong with a classroom posting pictures of Harry Potter and couching a lesson in the Harry Potter clothes in order to drive more student involvement. It's no different than when Jeopardy was popular 10 years ago and Jeopardy-like student challenges spread across schools. With respect to the copyright infringement aspect, I hope that is not the case. I believe that many people are visual learners and seeing an example can have a much more powerful result than a mere description. It was with that intention that I posted the video. I do not plan to distribute the app as that would clearly be in copyright violation.
- mcyger 16y ago
  Great points. There are 2+ ways to view everything. I appreciate your input! :)
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
mcyger 16y ago
I'm the founder of KnowPro, creator of the Hermione Granger math app, and writer of the blog. Thanks for your comments. I agree that my simple app will not help my daughter appreciate the beauty of math. I'm an engineer and I think I've nearly seen the beauty myself, but in the end I'm afraid that finals scared it away. I'd love to help my daughter attain what has alluded me all these years, but the rote mathematical drills of simple addition are not where she's going to find it. I can only hope that she spends more time practicing and masters these basic skills sooner. That was my intention with this simple app. Your comments are spot on with many parents. I think many defer their parental responsibilities to the PBS channel on TV or to teachers at school or in their religious organization. I, however, beam when I see how happy my daughter is playing the game, and I cannot wait until she comes home from school so we can play the game together (or more precisely, I can watch her while she plays). I think there's nothing more important than spending time with kids for their development. It sounds like you and your father had some special times that remain memorable to this date. I hope that every child and parent could share such an experience. Thanks for your comments. They made me think.
iandanforth 16y ago
Ultimately what matters is time spent doing math. In the short term this seems to have created a powerful motivation for his daughter to do math, which is something a lot of parents would kill for. If in the long term this were to somehow remove motivation for math then you'd be correct. However I submit that the 'beauty' in math is discovered farther down the line and that if you've already got basic sums and multiplication under your belt from hundreds of hours of repetition the barrier to entry is much much lower.
jerf 16y ago
True, but I'm not sure it matters. This is 3rd grade math. tesseract (an apt name) already posted a link to Lockhart's Lament, and I tend to agree with that, but I also think that before you can really get into the "beauty" of math you need to have a firm, memorized command of basic addition and multiplication, because it is not possible to see the beauty of math if you are looking at a beautiful equation for Newtonian motion and have not got "multiplication by one half" so firmly internalized that you don't even feel yourself trying to remember what it means.

by asolove 16y ago

tesseract 16y ago

> you will never use it to inspire them to appreciate the beauty of math. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

dtran 16y ago

I don't think he spent time making a custom iPad app for his daughter so he could make learning independent enough to not participate. He was merely trying to apply one of his strengths (programming), his background (a startup designing educational games), and background knowledge (knowing his daughter loved Harry Potter) to try to create a better learning experience for his daughter, which is something I think every good educator, whether it's a teacher, parent, or peer, should do. You have to teach people to your strengths and their strengths - if he was an author and chose to teach math to his daughter in the context of elaborate stories and fairy tales, would you call that self-defeating as well? This reminded me of Randy Pausch's last lecture (if you haven't had a chance to watch it, I highly recommend it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo). Teaching kids is all about headfakes* - you are't encouraging them to play soccer so they can go and play in the World Cup, but rather so they have a fun context to learn about things like hard work, practice, and teamwork. Analogously, I think this personalized Harry Potter app just teaches his daughter that learning doesn't always have to feel like work, not specifically that she should spend all day trying to get praises from Hermoine and British men answering math problems. * Disclaimer: I don't have kids and know little to nothing about raising or educating kids.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>you are't encouraging them to play soccer so they can go and play in the World Cup, but rather so they have a fun context to learn about things like hard work, practice, and teamwork I'm sure many people (parents|teachers|other educators)see things like sports in this way. Personally I'm teaching my kids football because I enjoy kicking a football around and playing the game - it's not a direct proxy for learning something else, that is not the motivation. The reason I'm teaching my eldest about maths is because I find it interesting, stimulating and often fun; not because I see it as a gateway to being an accountant or whatever. Having said that I see nothing novel educationally in the article except the very specific combination of movie franchise + ipad + maths. Remember Britney Spears being used to teach physics a few years ago? Slightly OT: I don't think his reasons as stated indemnify him from a successful claim of copyright infringement. He chose the specific franchise as a promotional tool both for his blog and for, it seems, KnowPro Apps. This was apparently a decision rooted in the profitable promotion of business entities. The fact that the app he mention itself was created for sole personal use is immaterial. If there is a KnowPro paid for this app in any way then I'd expect a successful suit could follow. IANA©L
- mcyger 16y ago
  Thanks for your feedback. I think the novelty comes in exactly what you state, and I think that the educational system relies too heavily on the status quo. There would be nothing wrong with a classroom posting pictures of Harry Potter and couching a lesson in the Harry Potter clothes in order to drive more student involvement. It's no different than when Jeopardy was popular 10 years ago and Jeopardy-like student challenges spread across schools. With respect to the copyright infringement aspect, I hope that is not the case. I believe that many people are visual learners and seeing an example can have a much more powerful result than a mere description. It was with that intention that I posted the video. I do not plan to distribute the app as that would clearly be in copyright violation.
mcyger 16y ago
Great points. There are 2+ ways to view everything. I appreciate your input! :)

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

mcyger 16y ago

I'm the founder of KnowPro, creator of the Hermione Granger math app, and writer of the blog. Thanks for your comments. I agree that my simple app will not help my daughter appreciate the beauty of math. I'm an engineer and I think I've nearly seen the beauty myself, but in the end I'm afraid that finals scared it away. I'd love to help my daughter attain what has alluded me all these years, but the rote mathematical drills of simple addition are not where she's going to find it. I can only hope that she spends more time practicing and masters these basic skills sooner. That was my intention with this simple app. Your comments are spot on with many parents. I think many defer their parental responsibilities to the PBS channel on TV or to teachers at school or in their religious organization. I, however, beam when I see how happy my daughter is playing the game, and I cannot wait until she comes home from school so we can play the game together (or more precisely, I can watch her while she plays). I think there's nothing more important than spending time with kids for their development. It sounds like you and your father had some special times that remain memorable to this date. I hope that every child and parent could share such an experience. Thanks for your comments. They made me think.

iandanforth 16y ago

Ultimately what matters is time spent doing math. In the short term this seems to have created a powerful motivation for his daughter to do math, which is something a lot of parents would kill for. If in the long term this were to somehow remove motivation for math then you'd be correct. However I submit that the 'beauty' in math is discovered farther down the line and that if you've already got basic sums and multiplication under your belt from hundreds of hours of repetition the barrier to entry is much much lower.

jerf 16y ago

True, but I'm not sure it matters. This is 3rd grade math. tesseract (an apt name) already posted a link to Lockhart's Lament, and I tend to agree with that, but I also think that before you can really get into the "beauty" of math you need to have a firm, memorized command of basic addition and multiplication, because it is not possible to see the beauty of math if you are looking at a beautiful equation for Newtonian motion and have not got "multiplication by one half" so firmly internalized that you don't even feel yourself trying to remember what it means.