7 ms·

> So the move — which will probably draw loud and hair-raising screams from U.S. commentators — is, nonetheless, A Good Thing. I'm in EU. A Good Thing is letti

by comboy 8y ago

> So the move — which will probably draw loud and hair-raising screams from U.S. commentators — is, nonetheless, A Good Thing. I'm in EU. A Good Thing is letting me watch whatever the fuck I want. It's a real dystopia if the state decides which movies you should or shouldn't watch.

ethbro 8y ago
It's hard to watch a movie that never gets produced. Let's not pretend there aren't strong tendencies towards centralization and homogenization in media. (That we could, most charitably, ascribe to efficiency and risk management) On the other side, yes, protectionism leads to a lot of otherwise unmarketable things being produced (looking at you, France). But balance doesn't seem like too much to ask. Because Hollywood is doing fuck all for diversity.
- davedx 8y ago
  > But balance doesn't seem like too much to ask. Because Hollywood is doing fuck all for diversity. Six million Wakandans might disagree with you...
  - ethbro 8y ago
    I'm as much of a Black Panther fan as anyone... but how many Hispanic Marvel superheroes are there?
    - beobab 8y ago
      Loads? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes
      - ethbro 8y ago
        Let's be serious, Miles Morales (as post-Parker Spiderman) is probably the only Marvel superhero on that list people know. Maybe Robbie Reyes (as Ghost Rider) or Kyle Rayner (as Green Lantern).
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >Loads? He means in movies, and especially Hollywood movies. Besides concerning just comics (and including titles that have insignificant circulation) the list is from all over the world. You thought Brazil and Mexico don't have their own superheroes in comics? That's not really what was asked.
  - tenfold 8y ago
    Clear tokenism. How often is a film like that released? If anything its success is a reflection of the potential for more diverse protagonists.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    That's the token diversity movie that doesn't move one iota the cultural representation of how people in Africa feel, what they think, how they live and so on. Not to mention that without the token gestures to american black rights references, it's a totally sterotypical superhero movie, with the same cliche manifested destiny for the hero, the same cliche choices, etc.
drakonka 8y ago
I don't think anybody's proposing a quota on individuals. You can watch whatever you want.
- scbrg 8y ago
  Well, they effectively put a cap on available foreign content to 2.3 times what's available domestically. If there's, say, 300 movies produced in your country, you will have to limit the selection of foreign movies to 700. Numbers picked from thin air as an example, but I still say that it quite severely limits my choice as an individual.
  - drakonka 8y ago
    I'm not sure how this is any worse than limits providers already put on the movies and television shows that they make available in different regions. Except this one aims to promote local material vs just locking certain content away for various other reasons (copyright, studio or provider marketing decisions, whatever). It's not like you had free choice of material before this, if Movie X isn't available in your region for any other reason you'd still have to find it elsewhere.
Haydos585x2 8y ago
Australia has similar laws for showing a certain amount of Australian content on TV and on Radio. This has certainly been a good thing and means that many local talents are discovered and content is shown where it might not be shown otherwise.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  I don't see much value in using protectionist policy to prop up entertainment that can't compete on its own. Is this content even any good? It's not like content can't come from Australia that can compete on its own, like AC/DC and The Crocodile Hunter. If anything this policy is probably holding back such greats from happening because it's easier to just meet the lower bar of participating in the Australian content quota.
  - Haydos585x2 8y ago
    Yes, a lot of it is pretty good. There isn't the same industry and money behind the productions that the US has so there isn't always the same quality. I think we get a lot of good productions out of the process. Australian bands are able to be played on the radio and the film sector can support actors that even go on to Hollywood. Australia is not a big country, there isn't a ton of money and specialised skills are not easy to come across. We'll never develop industries if we don't give them a chance. This EU legislation isn't as dystopic as some people in this comment thread seem to think.
dagw 8y ago
It's a real dystopia if the state decides which movies you should or shouldn't watch. Agreed, but fortunately this isn't that. Although the big the question is if this will lead more EU content being added to the services or more non-EU content being removed from the service to make the quotas. The other risk is that Netflix etc. will basically just say "go out and find me 150 hours of EU made content, I don't care what it is, for as little money as possible so we can fulfill our quota" and that this will do little or nothing to promote actual quality or interesting work. Either way though it's still the services and not the state that decide which movies "you should or shouldn't watch"
- dazc 8y ago
  "go out and find me 150 hours of EU made content, I don't care what it is, for as little money as possible so we can fulfill our quota" Good news, Netflix already do this.
rocqua 8y ago
I, as an EU citizen, have the exact same reaction. If the EU wants original cultural content, subsidize that content, and perhaps use anti-trust law or direct subsidy to coerce Netflix to license this content. But there is no active harm done in Netflix et. al. choosing what is popular. Unless they actively work to keep cultural content off their platforms, this kind of hard requirement is simply outrageous.
FearNotDaniel 8y ago
Given a choice of dystopias, I would also prefer to avoid the one where "the market" decides what I should or shouldn't watch. Nothing here is suggesting that you should be prevented from watching Jersey Shore, or the Kardashians, or whatever superhero action flick is in vogue this month, if that's your taste; but if it all came down to money then that's all any of us would get whether we like it or not.
- Bizarro 8y ago
  Given a choice of dystopias, I would also prefer to avoid the one where "the market" decides what I should or shouldn't watch. You really want the state deciding what you watch?
  - gonvaled 8y ago
    I want the state telling companies that they need to operate within some constraints. We do this all the time, for all kind of industries.
  - ginko 8y ago
    Rather than some American corporation, yes.
    - Bizarro 8y ago
      Cut off your nose to spite your face.
  - seszett 8y ago
    I'd prefer the state forcing companies to provide the widest possible range of choices to me, which is the case here.
    - mrep 8y ago
      Luxembourg, with their population of 590,667 people produced 5 movies in 2016 according to this source [0]. Extrapolating that production rate out 50 years gives them a whopping 250 total movies meaning Netflix could have a max possible of 833 movies assuming they leased every single one. How is that choice? [0]: https://www.the-numbers.com/Luxembourg/movies/year/2016 https://www.the-numbers.com/Luxembourg/movies/year/2016
raverbashing 8y ago
> A Good Thing is letting me watch whatever the fuck I want While I disagree in part with this, it is not forcing you on the chair and autoplaying a cult movie. You still watch what you want.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  You still watch what you want out of what's available to you. The question is, what is this going to do to what's available? Will it result in more local content, or less non-local? One of those increases your options; the other decreases them.
coldtea 8y ago
I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that pushes the cultural and political agendas of the country that makes it, and expresses its own preoccupation and worldview as if the rest 95% of the world doesn't matter. Especially since there are tens of different cultures and perspectives within the EU to represent. Not just the global fast food movies that are cheap to purchase and project because EU distributors only pay for screening rights (and not for their production costs).
- comboy 8y ago
  > conditioned from childhood That's parents job. Just as it is important that you give healthy food to your children and don't just let them eat fast food even if they would prefer it, same goes for entertainment. But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >That's parents job Kids aren't solely cultivated (not sure if that's the best term) by their parents (unless in Deliverance style situations). They are also cultivated (and even more so) by school, tv, parents friends, their friends, the internet, social media, advertisement, society at large, and so on. >But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you. No, unless I vote for it to do so. As a European whose not afraid of the term "social democracy" I don't believe the state is necessarily some "other", an "enemy", etc. It can be that but it can also be a mediator for things people want in aggregate and vote to make sure they happen. So, if we wish we had less fast food, we can very much vote to e.g. heavily tax those burger joints. Especially when they knowingly peddle poison for our health... In any case it should mandate that other foods are also made available at the school canteen. Which is what it does here.
    - 8y ago
wink 8y ago
I don't think I've ever watched 30% locally produced TV content or movies in my entire life. (really can't tell for music - maybe that works out, but also usually not, per year) Not that I care a big time, but I'd be on board with a 10% quota, but in general I don't really like the idea either.

by comboy 8y ago

ethbro 8y ago

It's hard to watch a movie that never gets produced. Let's not pretend there aren't strong tendencies towards centralization and homogenization in media. (That we could, most charitably, ascribe to efficiency and risk management) On the other side, yes, protectionism leads to a lot of otherwise unmarketable things being produced (looking at you, France). But balance doesn't seem like too much to ask. Because Hollywood is doing fuck all for diversity.

davedx 8y ago
> But balance doesn't seem like too much to ask. Because Hollywood is doing fuck all for diversity. Six million Wakandans might disagree with you...
- ethbro 8y ago
  I'm as much of a Black Panther fan as anyone... but how many Hispanic Marvel superheroes are there?
  - beobab 8y ago
    Loads? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes
    - ethbro 8y ago
      Let's be serious, Miles Morales (as post-Parker Spiderman) is probably the only Marvel superhero on that list people know. Maybe Robbie Reyes (as Ghost Rider) or Kyle Rayner (as Green Lantern).
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Loads? He means in movies, and especially Hollywood movies. Besides concerning just comics (and including titles that have insignificant circulation) the list is from all over the world. You thought Brazil and Mexico don't have their own superheroes in comics? That's not really what was asked.
- tenfold 8y ago
  Clear tokenism. How often is a film like that released? If anything its success is a reflection of the potential for more diverse protagonists.
- coldtea 8y ago
  That's the token diversity movie that doesn't move one iota the cultural representation of how people in Africa feel, what they think, how they live and so on. Not to mention that without the token gestures to american black rights references, it's a totally sterotypical superhero movie, with the same cliche manifested destiny for the hero, the same cliche choices, etc.

drakonka 8y ago

I don't think anybody's proposing a quota on individuals. You can watch whatever you want.

scbrg 8y ago
Well, they effectively put a cap on available foreign content to 2.3 times what's available domestically. If there's, say, 300 movies produced in your country, you will have to limit the selection of foreign movies to 700. Numbers picked from thin air as an example, but I still say that it quite severely limits my choice as an individual.
- drakonka 8y ago
  I'm not sure how this is any worse than limits providers already put on the movies and television shows that they make available in different regions. Except this one aims to promote local material vs just locking certain content away for various other reasons (copyright, studio or provider marketing decisions, whatever). It's not like you had free choice of material before this, if Movie X isn't available in your region for any other reason you'd still have to find it elsewhere.

Haydos585x2 8y ago

Australia has similar laws for showing a certain amount of Australian content on TV and on Radio. This has certainly been a good thing and means that many local talents are discovered and content is shown where it might not be shown otherwise.

jimmaswell 8y ago
I don't see much value in using protectionist policy to prop up entertainment that can't compete on its own. Is this content even any good? It's not like content can't come from Australia that can compete on its own, like AC/DC and The Crocodile Hunter. If anything this policy is probably holding back such greats from happening because it's easier to just meet the lower bar of participating in the Australian content quota.
- Haydos585x2 8y ago
  Yes, a lot of it is pretty good. There isn't the same industry and money behind the productions that the US has so there isn't always the same quality. I think we get a lot of good productions out of the process. Australian bands are able to be played on the radio and the film sector can support actors that even go on to Hollywood. Australia is not a big country, there isn't a ton of money and specialised skills are not easy to come across. We'll never develop industries if we don't give them a chance. This EU legislation isn't as dystopic as some people in this comment thread seem to think.

dagw 8y ago

It's a real dystopia if the state decides which movies you should or shouldn't watch. Agreed, but fortunately this isn't that. Although the big the question is if this will lead more EU content being added to the services or more non-EU content being removed from the service to make the quotas. The other risk is that Netflix etc. will basically just say "go out and find me 150 hours of EU made content, I don't care what it is, for as little money as possible so we can fulfill our quota" and that this will do little or nothing to promote actual quality or interesting work. Either way though it's still the services and not the state that decide which movies "you should or shouldn't watch"

dazc 8y ago
"go out and find me 150 hours of EU made content, I don't care what it is, for as little money as possible so we can fulfill our quota" Good news, Netflix already do this.

rocqua 8y ago

I, as an EU citizen, have the exact same reaction. If the EU wants original cultural content, subsidize that content, and perhaps use anti-trust law or direct subsidy to coerce Netflix to license this content. But there is no active harm done in Netflix et. al. choosing what is popular. Unless they actively work to keep cultural content off their platforms, this kind of hard requirement is simply outrageous.

FearNotDaniel 8y ago

Given a choice of dystopias, I would also prefer to avoid the one where "the market" decides what I should or shouldn't watch. Nothing here is suggesting that you should be prevented from watching Jersey Shore, or the Kardashians, or whatever superhero action flick is in vogue this month, if that's your taste; but if it all came down to money then that's all any of us would get whether we like it or not.

Bizarro 8y ago
Given a choice of dystopias, I would also prefer to avoid the one where "the market" decides what I should or shouldn't watch. You really want the state deciding what you watch?
- gonvaled 8y ago
  I want the state telling companies that they need to operate within some constraints. We do this all the time, for all kind of industries.
- ginko 8y ago
  Rather than some American corporation, yes.
  - Bizarro 8y ago
    Cut off your nose to spite your face.
- seszett 8y ago
  I'd prefer the state forcing companies to provide the widest possible range of choices to me, which is the case here.
  - mrep 8y ago
    Luxembourg, with their population of 590,667 people produced 5 movies in 2016 according to this source [0]. Extrapolating that production rate out 50 years gives them a whopping 250 total movies meaning Netflix could have a max possible of 833 movies assuming they leased every single one. How is that choice? [0]: https://www.the-numbers.com/Luxembourg/movies/year/2016 https://www.the-numbers.com/Luxembourg/movies/year/2016

raverbashing 8y ago

> A Good Thing is letting me watch whatever the fuck I want While I disagree in part with this, it is not forcing you on the chair and autoplaying a cult movie. You still watch what you want.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
You still watch what you want out of what's available to you. The question is, what is this going to do to what's available? Will it result in more local content, or less non-local? One of those increases your options; the other decreases them.

coldtea 8y ago

I'm also in EU. An Even Better Thing is to not have whole generations conditioned from childhood (by a system that distributes predominantly Hollywood movies for them to watch), to believe that those are "whatever the fuck" they actually want as free agents to watch. An Even Better Thing is to introduce people to multiple cinematic cultures (and multiple cultures in general), not just the global monoculture that pushes the cultural and political agendas of the country that makes it, and expresses its own preoccupation and worldview as if the rest 95% of the world doesn't matter. Especially since there are tens of different cultures and perspectives within the EU to represent. Not just the global fast food movies that are cheap to purchase and project because EU distributors only pay for screening rights (and not for their production costs).

comboy 8y ago
> conditioned from childhood That's parents job. Just as it is important that you give healthy food to your children and don't just let them eat fast food even if they would prefer it, same goes for entertainment. But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >That's parents job Kids aren't solely cultivated (not sure if that's the best term) by their parents (unless in Deliverance style situations). They are also cultivated (and even more so) by school, tv, parents friends, their friends, the internet, social media, advertisement, society at large, and so on. >But the state shouldn't set a limit on burgers per month for you. No, unless I vote for it to do so. As a European whose not afraid of the term "social democracy" I don't believe the state is necessarily some "other", an "enemy", etc. It can be that but it can also be a mediator for things people want in aggregate and vote to make sure they happen. So, if we wish we had less fast food, we can very much vote to e.g. heavily tax those burger joints. Especially when they knowingly peddle poison for our health... In any case it should mandate that other foods are also made available at the school canteen. Which is what it does here.
  - 8y ago

wink 8y ago

I don't think I've ever watched 30% locally produced TV content or movies in my entire life. (really can't tell for music - maybe that works out, but also usually not, per year) Not that I care a big time, but I'd be on board with a 10% quota, but in general I don't really like the idea either.