4 ms·

Why not become a materialist and get all the discomfort over with all at once forever?

shrimp_emoji 8y ago
I'm a materialist, but the discomfort is still there. Intellectual philosophy (moral relativism, illusion of self, etc.) is insoluble to the emotions we evolved with. (Take the fear of death.)
- trevyn 8y ago
  Disagree, it is possible to eliminate fear of death (and all emotions) on this path.
  - shrimp_emoji 8y ago
    Lol! Well, if you have, I envy you. But I doubt it. I think there's legends of a test for master zen monks to see whether they've cultivated enough control over themselves to not react when they have a finger or hand cut off. But, if it's even possible to shed your displeasure of pain, death, and all other things and go through your daily life like that until it's over, I think it's inaccessible to most people. (With normal lives, at any rate; if you said you have to do master-level zen meditation or be under heavy sedation for most of the day, I would say that doesn't count. : p)
pokemongoaway 8y ago
What's the evidence that non-materialists are merely avoiding a discomfort that you materialists are robust enough to handle? At least that's the implication I'm hearing...
pmarreck 8y ago
LOL. Well, the default position should be materialist. I just don't feel (ahem) that that addresses what I'm seeing here (literally and figuratively; see "qualia") As a programmer, I'm pretty rationalist... The worst thing is nondeterministic code! As a former Psych major though, over the years it has been dawning on me slowly but surely that just about all that is valued in this experience we call life (as well as value itself) is entirely irrational. It's actually been difficult to grapple with that, but... I just think something's there. "Joie de vivre", "the spark of creative thriving", "the light in a person's eyes", whatever. And... I don't think we will ever nail most of it down rationally... But we should try!

I'm a materialist, but the discomfort is still there. Intellectual philosophy (moral relativism, illusion of self, etc.) is insoluble to the emotions we evolved with. (Take the fear of death.)

trevyn 8y ago
Disagree, it is possible to eliminate fear of death (and all emotions) on this path.
- shrimp_emoji 8y ago
  Lol! Well, if you have, I envy you. But I doubt it. I think there's legends of a test for master zen monks to see whether they've cultivated enough control over themselves to not react when they have a finger or hand cut off. But, if it's even possible to shed your displeasure of pain, death, and all other things and go through your daily life like that until it's over, I think it's inaccessible to most people. (With normal lives, at any rate; if you said you have to do master-level zen meditation or be under heavy sedation for most of the day, I would say that doesn't count. : p)

pokemongoaway 8y ago

What's the evidence that non-materialists are merely avoiding a discomfort that you materialists are robust enough to handle? At least that's the implication I'm hearing...

pmarreck 8y ago

LOL. Well, the default position should be materialist. I just don't feel (ahem) that that addresses what I'm seeing here (literally and figuratively; see "qualia") As a programmer, I'm pretty rationalist... The worst thing is nondeterministic code! As a former Psych major though, over the years it has been dawning on me slowly but surely that just about all that is valued in this experience we call life (as well as value itself) is entirely irrational. It's actually been difficult to grapple with that, but... I just think something's there. "Joie de vivre", "the spark of creative thriving", "the light in a person's eyes", whatever. And... I don't think we will ever nail most of it down rationally... But we should try!