8 ms·

Nothing? Ever heard of the US DOD (Department of Defense)? It has many branches, each of which is full of 18-22 year old volunteers, who are getting paid to d

by nogbit 8y ago

Nothing? Ever heard of the US DOD (Department of Defense)? It has many branches, each of which is full of 18-22 year old volunteers, who are getting paid to do exactly the 3 bullets you mentioned. The key difference is they are getting paid vs. having to pay...and, they get that experience in numerous cities/towns over the course of 4 years. Some branches are more like the college life than others (USAF, from my experience). Granted it's not an apples to apples comparison here, but there are less expensive and more efficient ways (Peace Corp as well) of getting that experience. Universities are (should be) for those that enjoy learning or must have that 4 year certificate for the field there interested in working in.

TheBeardKing 8y ago
The main difference there being subject to persistent and total authority vs a high degree of freedom requiring personal initiative.
- dx87 8y ago
  You've got the wrong idea regarding western militaries, there is a very big focus on individual initiative. Contrary to the popular belief on this site, people in the military aren't brainless drones who only joined because they had no prospects after high school. A common saying I heard in the USMC was "Tell your Marines what to do, not how to do it. They'll suprise you with their creativity." Yes, you ultimately don't have any say in what task has to be done, but leaders who don't let their subordinates take initiative and figure out the best way to achieve that task are considered poor leaders. I've seen multiple articles about military hacker spaces opening up for junior enlisted to get creative with new solutions to problems. 3D printing is also starting to become more popular with enlisted personnel since it allows to them to make temporary replacements for easily broken parts instead of potentially having to wait weeks for an official replacement to arrive. Examples I can remember are the fan in the air intake of an M1A1 Abrahms, and switches on the control panel of their cargo planes.
  - tcbawo 8y ago
    In the military, you probably don't get to change your mind and do something different on a whim. And there's the whole killing/being killed thing.
  - hnbroseph 8y ago
    i suspect that you've taken more from their statement than was intended.
  - ataturk 8y ago
    And yet every former military guy I meet is pretty much the same guy--used to being told what to do, can't think outside of the box, isn't able to take his/her own initiative to solve problems at work. They're great if you want Powerpoints made up, though.
- B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
  > persistent and total authority Yep, universities can be rather petty ...
  - Assadi 8y ago
    As someone in a university right now, albeit in Russia, I do feel a full unbridled ability to say what I want, learn and research what I want, and think what I want. And, I don't say this as someone who has super mainstream opinions; in fact, I can be fairly young and radical at times ;-) I can't imagine American universities are too too different. Maybe I'm wrong. But, it seems like there is a weird anti-higher education culture right now that I don't fully understand. I really do respect my university a lot for the freedom they give me. The authority here is pretty lax. As long as you get the job done and don't smoke in the dorm, they don't care.
    - nradov 8y ago
      Would your unbridled ability to say what you want extend to protesting against the Putin administration if you chose to do so?
      - Assadi 8y ago
        I would say so, yeah. Criticisms against the federal government are very common amongst young students. I regularly say things in public and in public spaces on the internet where my full name and details are attached (e.g., Facebook, VK, etc) that I think to myself "you know, maybe I am pushing this a bit too far". But, as a foreign student, that seems to be more of an irrational fear instilled in me based on the perception we have of Russia back home. Realistically, unless you're siding with some sort of terrorist organisation, you're generally ok when it comes to the federal government. If you've very blatant about your anti-regime opinions, you might get some attention, but it isn't like you're ever going to get declined a visa renewal or deported or something like that; the most they'll do is watch you more closely. And, don't get me wrong as well, it would have to be genuine terrorist ties to get you deported. For example, I regularly criticise Russia over their treatment of Oleg Sentsov who is, in my opinion, mislabeled as a terrorist and being treated, honestly, pretty abhorrently. My "terrorist" sympathies and criticism over human rights, however, is not enough to upset the federal migration services. At the university level, though, I am also very proud of my institution and their commitment to their students. They and the regional government of Tomsk have regularly shown the fact that they're willing to stick up to the federal government in order to protect the students.
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
> those that enjoy learning That was a couple of centuries ago. Now universities are mostly for youth storage. (And room at the DOD facilities is comparatively very limited.)
- watwut 8y ago
  I learned a lot at college and enjoyed learning. I did party occasionally, but not that much. I was neither lonely or isolated or only one who liked to talk about subjects - there were many people like that.
- chriswarbo 8y ago
  That's a very cynical opinion. Personally, I went to Uni and majored physics specifically because of my love for the subject and a desire to learn more. I minored in CS so I could learn to program, and worked a few Web dev jobs after graduating. I also developed a real passion for topics like programming language theory, type theory, mathematical concept formation, etc. and have since managed to get a position as a research student to work in that field.
watwut 8y ago
Yeah, basic training is totally like college semester. And deployment is totally like field trip in the forrest. Wtf. And depending on where soldiers go, in most places they don't get civilian experience. They get soldier experience which is, again, much different.
- nogbit 8y ago
  Theres 1.4 million active duty military, that's a lot of different deployments, not all of which are stereotypical "soldier experiences". That's like saying the Air Force is full of pilots when in reality only 1% of those in the USAF are pilots.
cmurf 8y ago
I think some form of public service should be compulsory at 18, peace corp or military.

by nogbit 8y ago

TheBeardKing 8y ago

The main difference there being subject to persistent and total authority vs a high degree of freedom requiring personal initiative.

dx87 8y ago
You've got the wrong idea regarding western militaries, there is a very big focus on individual initiative. Contrary to the popular belief on this site, people in the military aren't brainless drones who only joined because they had no prospects after high school. A common saying I heard in the USMC was "Tell your Marines what to do, not how to do it. They'll suprise you with their creativity." Yes, you ultimately don't have any say in what task has to be done, but leaders who don't let their subordinates take initiative and figure out the best way to achieve that task are considered poor leaders. I've seen multiple articles about military hacker spaces opening up for junior enlisted to get creative with new solutions to problems. 3D printing is also starting to become more popular with enlisted personnel since it allows to them to make temporary replacements for easily broken parts instead of potentially having to wait weeks for an official replacement to arrive. Examples I can remember are the fan in the air intake of an M1A1 Abrahms, and switches on the control panel of their cargo planes.
- tcbawo 8y ago
  In the military, you probably don't get to change your mind and do something different on a whim. And there's the whole killing/being killed thing.
- hnbroseph 8y ago
  i suspect that you've taken more from their statement than was intended.
- ataturk 8y ago
  And yet every former military guy I meet is pretty much the same guy--used to being told what to do, can't think outside of the box, isn't able to take his/her own initiative to solve problems at work. They're great if you want Powerpoints made up, though.
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
> persistent and total authority Yep, universities can be rather petty ...
- Assadi 8y ago
  As someone in a university right now, albeit in Russia, I do feel a full unbridled ability to say what I want, learn and research what I want, and think what I want. And, I don't say this as someone who has super mainstream opinions; in fact, I can be fairly young and radical at times ;-) I can't imagine American universities are too too different. Maybe I'm wrong. But, it seems like there is a weird anti-higher education culture right now that I don't fully understand. I really do respect my university a lot for the freedom they give me. The authority here is pretty lax. As long as you get the job done and don't smoke in the dorm, they don't care.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Would your unbridled ability to say what you want extend to protesting against the Putin administration if you chose to do so?
    - Assadi 8y ago
      I would say so, yeah. Criticisms against the federal government are very common amongst young students. I regularly say things in public and in public spaces on the internet where my full name and details are attached (e.g., Facebook, VK, etc) that I think to myself "you know, maybe I am pushing this a bit too far". But, as a foreign student, that seems to be more of an irrational fear instilled in me based on the perception we have of Russia back home. Realistically, unless you're siding with some sort of terrorist organisation, you're generally ok when it comes to the federal government. If you've very blatant about your anti-regime opinions, you might get some attention, but it isn't like you're ever going to get declined a visa renewal or deported or something like that; the most they'll do is watch you more closely. And, don't get me wrong as well, it would have to be genuine terrorist ties to get you deported. For example, I regularly criticise Russia over their treatment of Oleg Sentsov who is, in my opinion, mislabeled as a terrorist and being treated, honestly, pretty abhorrently. My "terrorist" sympathies and criticism over human rights, however, is not enough to upset the federal migration services. At the university level, though, I am also very proud of my institution and their commitment to their students. They and the regional government of Tomsk have regularly shown the fact that they're willing to stick up to the federal government in order to protect the students.

B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago

> those that enjoy learning That was a couple of centuries ago. Now universities are mostly for youth storage. (And room at the DOD facilities is comparatively very limited.)

watwut 8y ago
I learned a lot at college and enjoyed learning. I did party occasionally, but not that much. I was neither lonely or isolated or only one who liked to talk about subjects - there were many people like that.
chriswarbo 8y ago
That's a very cynical opinion. Personally, I went to Uni and majored physics specifically because of my love for the subject and a desire to learn more. I minored in CS so I could learn to program, and worked a few Web dev jobs after graduating. I also developed a real passion for topics like programming language theory, type theory, mathematical concept formation, etc. and have since managed to get a position as a research student to work in that field.

watwut 8y ago

Yeah, basic training is totally like college semester. And deployment is totally like field trip in the forrest. Wtf. And depending on where soldiers go, in most places they don't get civilian experience. They get soldier experience which is, again, much different.

nogbit 8y ago
Theres 1.4 million active duty military, that's a lot of different deployments, not all of which are stereotypical "soldier experiences". That's like saying the Air Force is full of pilots when in reality only 1% of those in the USAF are pilots.

cmurf 8y ago

I think some form of public service should be compulsory at 18, peace corp or military.