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In Kenya, “sugar” relationships have become both more common and more visible
- annon2323 8y agoIn Kenya, but also in the UsA. Cant believe how many college students become sugar babies to pay college. In the US
- moo2Chee 8y agoGlobal replace "Kenya" with "USA", the tale still rings true.
- aphextron 8y agoOr anywhere in the west, really. It's just one more symptom of the horrific rising levels of wealth inequality.
- riffraff 8y agoI am unsure I understand your last remark. This seems more a result of the rise of a new medium than the rise of inequality, i.e. sex-for-money and pleasant-partner-to-keep-around-for-money have been around for millennia.
- noobermin 8y agoIt is arguable that this was how marriage functioned in the past in the west, especially when men courted women from their parents.
- nordsieck 8y ago> It is arguable that this was how marriage functioned in the past in the west Really? Both Dowry and Bride Price were not uncommon practices.
- ksec 8y agoExactly, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Russia. Arguably less percentage in EU. Or more like, the world has always been like that in some form or another. Sugar Daddy is nothing new, we just happen to have Internet to spread this information far wider.
- epx 8y agoPlease discount the fact that I am a bit of a misanthrope, but... who the hell enters in a relationship not expecting to get something in return?
- saagarjha 8y agoAlmost nobody. But the benefits don't have to be some sort of personal gain: I'm sure most relationships are just for the "benefit" of someone who supports you emotionally rather than with money/fame/power.
- hackits 8y agoGuy talking here. As a man it's best to self actualize and see you-self as a person with feelings, emotions and boundaries. Take a serious look at your health, sexual ,emotional needs and address them individually distinct from each other. After that then branch off to getting sexual relationships with other people as you yourself can identify people with mental disorders and vet people who don't align with your goals and aspiration in life. If anyone wants a great starting point to help out I would recommend the talks by: https://youtu.be/lMBqFFnSS5U?list=PLe7tfp6fIaMwdMTW2O3-kkBiJcoFEOwFl https://youtu.be/lMBqFFnSS5U?list=PLe7tfp6fIaMwdMTW2O3-kkBiJ... For Veting individual you can simply use `Transactional analysis` to quickly filter from people who're high value vs high drama.
- savvu 8y agoHave you heard of ants?
- epx 8y agoYeah, very good :)
- CamTin 8y agoOutside marketized relationships like boss-underling, employer-employee, and salesman-customer? Pretty much no one who isn't an Adam Sandler villain.
- Untit1ed 8y agoI'm not sure what I expected, but some kind of NSFW tag would've been nice :|
- Symbiote 8y agoI think, if you can't justify reading a BBC article at work, then you probably shouldn't be reading HN at work.
- casefields 8y agoThe very top of the page says: (Warning: Contains adult themes and graphic images) That isn't enough for you?
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- nosjwshere 8y agoAdult themes written, and NSFW images are two different things.
- swizzbeats 8y agoHow do these men find sugar babies?
- anonsfnative 8y agoAll of a sudden the vastly over-represented "incel" population here on HN begin researching "leaving the bay area and becoming a digital nomad expat in Kenya".
- DoreenMichele 8y agoThanks to the choice of illustrations, it could definitely use a NSFW tag. But it's a surprisingly good article about a difficult subject. It's very evenhanded and even notes that there are young males who do this as well. Sex work is a tough topic for sorting out human rights under the best of circumstances. It sounds like it is even more fraught in the crucible that is Africa.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago>>One of her motives, she says, is to be able to support her younger sisters, so they won't need to rely on men for money Aha! The very definition of taking one for the team :-) . The news is that now it's wide open and more expected. They'll keep it doing well into their 40's, once you cross the barrier you can always use more money. And odds are that they'll find a taker, albeit an older one and receive way less money.
- inernetuser001 8y agoIn my opinion, marriage in the traditional sense is a form of prostitution. Man as provider in a household is the same as man in the role of sugar daddy. It seems like in other parts of the world, people are more matter of fact about things. In the West, people seem to look at relationships through Disney goggles.
- gammatrigono 8y agoDoes this remind anyone of sharecropping?
- noobermin 8y agoI am an outsider to some extent but it's interesting observing a repeat of the so-called "feminist sex wars" here in Africa. One argument is that if the society was more equal economically across gendered lines, then there would be no need for this kind of sex work. This is often used as an argument against sex work in the west as well, but I'm guessing the level of wealth inequality, and not just across gendered lines, is much more extreme in Kenya, so the scale of the difference could push it into a different regime. I don't know what the answer is. I also don't like the idea of people on the outside imputing their mores unto another group when that group could advocate for themselves.
- ddorian43 8y agoDon't you think with economic equality, 80% of females will go to top 10% of males (for free) ? While now at least they pay.
- radiantswirl 8y agoDude be quiet you’re gonna wake the Normies up to knowledge that really won’t be useful to them and will only make them angry Of course you’re correct but SSSHHH bro!!
- petra 8y agoThat's not what we see in the Nordic countries .
- ddorian43 8y agoWhat do you see there ? Women date down or equal ?
- raducu 8y agoIf I remember correctly 23% of norwegian males under 40 are childless while only 13% of females are childless. And that is for having children; I'm sure in the "casual dating"/monopolising the most fertile/attractive years of women the top males have it much better.
- ofrzeta 8y agoAside: I'd rather have a classic article with images and videos instead of that constant over- and underscrolling, images appearing and disappearing etc. I think the innovation is a bit compulsive.
- keshab 8y agoI wonder how people come up with these insanity. It does not add any value to the article and is so infuriating. Apart from that, I found the article good.
- expertentipp 8y agoSomeone come up with a „brilliant” idea, someone else who doesn’t care implements it. That’s how usually short-lived, standard-breaking solutions are created. I’m seeing more and more often on many websites an ad in this „creatively revealing” image.
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- xyzal 8y agoThis was one of the few articles where I appreciated Firefox's Reader View.
- laythea 8y agoNo! It's cool and hip, plus the template was not very configurable! :) <\UI rant>
- tw1010 8y agoI think it's nice that we have both. I don't think there's any risk that this format will replace text articles overall. (If for no other reason than that the economics just won't make sense in all places.)
- person_of_color 8y agoI'd like to hear of any HNers who are involved in this lifestyle. Given SV pay, it must be not unheard of.
- wisnswknsk 8y agoI don't think the people on HN who are in sugar relationships realize it.
- malmsteen 8y agoTheres a whole subreddit about it and a few SVs guys talk openly (but anonymously) about it there.
- tw1010 8y agoDon't leave us hanging like that. Please link to the subreddit.
- kimikelku 8y agoI think it might be this one /r/sugarlifestyleforum
- throwaway_nnn 8y agoThis subreddit is dominated by women who make it their lifestyle to be a sugar baby. It's not a representative sample, just as a Star Wars subreddit won't be a representative sample of all people who watched Star Wars movies. I'd recommend avoiding experienced girls like that (hypocritical, I know, since I'm also experienced) and not listening to any of their advice.
- throwaway_nnn 8y agoGo ahead and ask something about it, the throwaway account is ready. Not in SV however. It's been interesting - e.g. I met the smartest (but lazy) person I know and I know for sure that one tech billionaire that you've likely heard of was also doing it.
- throwaw-zxcvbn 8y agoFWIW, this is rampant in many parts of Asia, too, with a similar discrepancy between traditional culture (Confucianism in China, Catholicism in the Philippines, Buddhism in Thailand, Islam in Indonesia, ...) and today's realities. Several young women maintain several distinct social media identities: one for family, one for friends, one for "daddies".
- ssijak 8y agoAnd then Facebook starts offering your “daddy” account to your family in the “people you may know category” because it sees that you hang out with them in the same location
- DoreenMichele 8y agoYou can't have multiple Facebook accounts. That's an offense that gets you banned if they figure it out.
- Quarrelsome 8y agooh you totally can. They just don't want everyone doing it. I have at least three.
- Broken_Hippo 8y agoActually... Many, many people do. Most often, when they suspect you have more than one, they'll close the multiples after requiring you to verify your identity on one (or more) of them. Source: I only have one, but I run in occult circles. Many folks keep their occult stuff seperate from their main friends, family, and work account, with some overlap. Sometimes folks will go through and turn them in, and most folks turn around and make yet another new one.
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- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
- nicolas_t 8y agoWhenever I think about sugar relationship, I always think of the movie 和你在一起 (Together) by Chen Kaige. One of the character was a woman dependent on sugar relationships and her motivations, fears and the relationships she had with those men was very well depicted.
- throwaw-zxcvbn 8y agoI wonder, by the way, whether the surge of this phenomenon is an outgrowth of social media. In discussions with young women of modest means in countries with limited opportunities and huge income inequality (ie most third world countries), it is hard to find arguments against their impression that this lifestyle is their best chance for a good life.
- axilmar 8y agoThe oldest profession is prostitution. You can find references to it in ancient greek writings, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetaira https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetaira
- watwut 8y agoThey had other professions too. It does not proof it is the oldest one.
- a_silly_name 8y ago"Prostitution is the oldest profession" is a common saying, but not to be taken literally. Should be read more a sardonic acknowledgement of how innately transactional sex can be, and how the line between 'transactional sex' and 'not transactional sex' can be very, very blurry. Especially in horrific pre-historical survival scenarios. Hence the saying.
- watwut 8y agoI don't see where that expression brings in anything blurry. It just says that it is old thing. Transnational sex is kind of new concept, I dont think all cultures cared about difference in these terms. Marriage was transactional to large degree and ok, true love out of marriage was bad. > Especially in horrific pre-historical survival scenarios. Hence the saying. Prostitution and rape are not the same, really. Prostitution or sex for survival happened much more lately (Victorian era, any time with lack of resources, any time with lack of men, wars, world wars).
- a_silly_name 8y agoMy goodness, I certainly wasn't referring to rape (!). I was referring to transactional sex, and the vagueness of the definition of the phrase. I don't really understand your comment. 'Transactional sex' can be both a new concept, and a thing that happened before the phrase was coined.
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- randyrand 8y ago“Transactional sex was once driven by poverty” Isn’t poverty what drives most of us to get any job? I work because otherwise i’d be in poverty. Are they implying that sex work is the only work available to them? Unlikely. But I imagine sex work is far more profitable and easier of a job than the alternatives - so maybe that actually makes it a good thing?
- vinni2 8y agoI really wonder what makes a news article like this interesting enough to make it featured in ycombinator news. I mean from the content point of view. Probably interesting to train a classifier. Has anybody tried?
- M_Bakhtiari 8y agoIn the Gulf they take it one step further with their Dubai Porta Potties: https://britmannia.com/2016/07/03/dubai-porta-potties/ https://britmannia.com/2016/07/03/dubai-porta-potties/
- candiodari 8y agoThe old huge problem with empowerment rears it's ugly head. The problem is that freedom is liberating for the powerful, and a prison for the poor. For rich women, the ability to enter into these "sponsor relationships" is empowering, enabling them to do more. And as long as they can just end it on short notice, certainly empowering. For poor women, who would not be able to eat without a sponsor relationship or outright prostitution, the freedom is a prison, effectively convicting them to lifelong sex work. This would also work in reverse. Zero tolerance for prostitution is liberating for the poor, oppressive for the rich. Not just for women even, if you consider for a little bit what the effect on men is, it is even liberating for men. For rich men, of course the ability to just buy women without needing to hide anything is liberating. Even for men who just want to have sex without condoms (often very strongly legislated against in outright sex work, and enforced by the women, for health reasons) it is liberating. The same is true for many other issues that current society can't seem to make it's mind up over. For, example, for many young girls, the "freedom to wear the islamic face veil" is not freedom at all, because their parents have a very strong preference (and feel justified in using violence to get this particular issue settled). And of course that leads to further oppression. But for women who are already in a position of sufficient power to just do what they want, whatever comes into their mind, a prohibition on face veils would be limiting. However, in both examples it is only liberty at the expense of others that is achieved. Usually liberty for the powerful, and usually men at that, at the expense of poorer people, mostly women. But we should allow this ... because Beyonce used it to achieve great status. And that it failed 99.99% of those who tried it ? Oh well ... And there is the small issue that there are many more women for whom outlawing prostitution is liberating, where even just outlawing or socially punishing sponsorship relationships would at least provide safe sex and there are many more girls for whom a prohibition on face veils would be liberating, where it would provide a way out of a bad family position, an initial concession to "family oppression/values" that their parents would be forced to make. Because there are simply much more poor ...