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I was having a conversation with a friend living in Austin about what it would take for SF to not be the center of Tech. And the answer seems to be: an actual d

by pm90 8y ago

I was having a conversation with a friend living in Austin about what it would take for SF to not be the center of Tech. And the answer seems to be: an actual devastating earthquake. And even then, If it was mostly property damage (and not human lives lost) the tech sector would probably rally and see it as a huge opportunity to rebuild SF the way they want it rather than move away. When I see articles like this, I wonder what it would take for other cities to change similarly. What would it take for another city to be the finance hub (replace NYC) or the new entertainment hub (replace LA) and I really can't think of other cities becoming that. So I am similarly skeptical of Tech moving out of SF anytime soon. And Fred makes a great point: Tech startups still have an outsized impact and stellar returns that justify the skyrocketing expenditures in the Valley. When this stops being the case is perhaps when things would change.

humanrebar 8y ago
The problem is that "tech" isn't an industry. It's a set of tools used by other industries. John Deere is "tech". As is Two Sigma. And Wal-Mart and UPS (logistics). See also NYC quantitative trading firms. And East Coast biotech. Silicon Valley tech is mostly centered around specific types of consumer products, especially fremium and ad based internet businesses. That's not even close to being the only kind of technology or software out there.
- djrogers 8y ago
  > Silicon Valley tech is most a specific type of consumer tech, mostly focusing on fremium internet centric businesses. Not even close to being true. There are a handful of big companies in that area, but there are tons of others that aren’t. Enterprise startups flourish in SV - SFDC, Workday, Palo Alto Networks, ServiceNow, Splunk... Just a handful very successful startups that are all uber-unicorns.
  - humanrebar 8y ago
    The point wasn't to typecast SV as much as broaden what counts as tech. Defense contractors make lasers mounted on jets. It's absolutely "tech" and not something we wonder about being exclusive to Northern CA.
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    Not to mention 23andMe, Genentech, Palantir, Apple, Cisco, Seagate, NVidia, Lockheed Martin, etc. I somewhat agree with the grandparent - tech is a lot more than just consumer Internet tech. And yet there's a useful distinction there - once tech is more than about 10-15 years old, it ceases to be considered "tech", because it either dies out or becomes big enough that it gets its own label. United Airlines (another SF company) was some fantastic technology - in the 1920s. Now, it's just an airline, because we've gotten used to the ability to fly through the air and cross the country within a few hours. And I'd say that Silicon Valley has an advantage in "tech" (i.e. innovations that are < 15 years old) in that a.) it has a culture that's open to the next new thing instead of assuming it's a threat to the natural order and b.) has a large number of service providers that are all eager to find & support that next new thing and c.) has a legal framework that prevents past employers from stopping you from going off and starting the next thing.
    - realityking 8y ago
      Isn't United a Chicago company? They obviously have a major hub in San Francisco but otherwise I don't think they have any connection to the SF Bay Area.
      - nostrademons 8y ago
        Oh, you're right. They have a hub at SFO which also does a lot of aircraft maintenance (Wikipedia says it's the principal Global MRO base for United), and they're also one of the largest employers on the peninsula. But the actual corporate headquarters is in Chicago, and supposedly the actual predecessor airlines were founded in places as diverse as Seattle, Boise ID, Washington DC, etc.
- akiselev 8y ago
  South SF is the second largest hub for biotechnology and pharma in the US (if not the world) behind Boston metro, Oakland is the sixth largest (IIRC) port in the US, and the San Jose area is an important hub for high value add manufacturing (aerospace, defense, robotics, medical devices, etc). I've even heard it claimed that after the fall of Detroit, San Jose metro became the top manufacturing region in the western hemisphere by total revenue (although I don't know how to evaluate that). Just a little south and you've got a rapidly growing agtech hub thats been around for decades too. Freemium and ad based businesses are actually just a tiny fraction of the tech companies operating out of the SF Bay Area. You just dont hear about the other ones because they're not as shiny, new, or have ridiculous risk/reward profiles.
  - randomdata 8y ago
    > You just dont hear about the other ones because they're not as shiny, new, or have ridiculous risk/reward profiles. But doesn't that suggest that tech is found everywhere, not just in the Valley, but we simply don't hear about it?
- harimau777 8y ago
  Most of that technology requires a significantly different skill set than what people generally mean when they say "tech" so I'm not sure if it really makes sense to group them together for this purpose. In my experience the set of tools used by different industries isn't the same. I moved to SF because I wanted to do web development using modern tools like React and Node as opposed to Angular 1 and Java servers.
- twtw 8y ago
  > fremium and ad based internet businesses And the actual silicon businesses. Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Cypress, Broadcom Limited, Marvell, Xilinx, ...
- gaius 8y ago
  That is the dirty little secret of “silicon roundabout” or even worse “silicon beach” in the UK. There’s no actual tech there, just various tech-enabled ad and marketing firms.
viridian 8y ago
I think this obsessive desire to have to have the best, or biggest, or most of everything is a problem. While the ROI is good there are cities that bring a more balanced plate to the table compared to the valley's extremely high barrier to entry and risk distribution. It's hard to scale a startup in California, even if the talent pool is there.
sharkweek 8y ago
> rally and see it as a huge opportunity to rebuild SF the way they want it rather than move away. Oh goodness I would love to be a fly on the wall during the debates trying to come to a consensus on this
paulie_a 8y ago
Tech is moving out of silicon valley. Tech hubs in other cities are sprouting up like weeds. And quite frankly there are people that simply don't want to live there. I know a number of people that moved away. I personally wouldn't even consider moving there unless the pay was 1 million+ a year. The shine of SV is dimishing rapidly.
- kilroy123 8y ago
  I'm one of these people. I refuse to live there and I agree, some what, I wouldn't move there unless I made the equivalent of $400k+ a year.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I have a friend who works at a FAANG company with a total comp of around $200K a year in a non technical role (managerial). There is no way that I would move to the west coast from the metropolitan area where I live for that amount.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    Personally 400k is substantially more than I make now but it would be an instant "no". A million, now I could endure the culture of sv, save enough in a few years and run like hell to somewhere better.
- jarsin 8y ago
  I feel the same way. Just to get a job with them (FANG) you have to jump through tons of hoops and study programming questions for months. Then after all that if your lucky you get to move to the bay area and rent a studio for $3k+ with a commute. Is it even possible to get a 1 million+ a year offer from these companies?
  - twtw 8y ago
    There are more than 4 companies in Silicon Valley.

by pm90 8y ago

humanrebar 8y ago

The problem is that "tech" isn't an industry. It's a set of tools used by other industries. John Deere is "tech". As is Two Sigma. And Wal-Mart and UPS (logistics). See also NYC quantitative trading firms. And East Coast biotech. Silicon Valley tech is mostly centered around specific types of consumer products, especially fremium and ad based internet businesses. That's not even close to being the only kind of technology or software out there.

djrogers 8y ago
> Silicon Valley tech is most a specific type of consumer tech, mostly focusing on fremium internet centric businesses. Not even close to being true. There are a handful of big companies in that area, but there are tons of others that aren’t. Enterprise startups flourish in SV - SFDC, Workday, Palo Alto Networks, ServiceNow, Splunk... Just a handful very successful startups that are all uber-unicorns.
- humanrebar 8y ago
  The point wasn't to typecast SV as much as broaden what counts as tech. Defense contractors make lasers mounted on jets. It's absolutely "tech" and not something we wonder about being exclusive to Northern CA.
- nostrademons 8y ago
  Not to mention 23andMe, Genentech, Palantir, Apple, Cisco, Seagate, NVidia, Lockheed Martin, etc. I somewhat agree with the grandparent - tech is a lot more than just consumer Internet tech. And yet there's a useful distinction there - once tech is more than about 10-15 years old, it ceases to be considered "tech", because it either dies out or becomes big enough that it gets its own label. United Airlines (another SF company) was some fantastic technology - in the 1920s. Now, it's just an airline, because we've gotten used to the ability to fly through the air and cross the country within a few hours. And I'd say that Silicon Valley has an advantage in "tech" (i.e. innovations that are < 15 years old) in that a.) it has a culture that's open to the next new thing instead of assuming it's a threat to the natural order and b.) has a large number of service providers that are all eager to find & support that next new thing and c.) has a legal framework that prevents past employers from stopping you from going off and starting the next thing.
  - realityking 8y ago
    Isn't United a Chicago company? They obviously have a major hub in San Francisco but otherwise I don't think they have any connection to the SF Bay Area.
    - nostrademons 8y ago
      Oh, you're right. They have a hub at SFO which also does a lot of aircraft maintenance (Wikipedia says it's the principal Global MRO base for United), and they're also one of the largest employers on the peninsula. But the actual corporate headquarters is in Chicago, and supposedly the actual predecessor airlines were founded in places as diverse as Seattle, Boise ID, Washington DC, etc.
akiselev 8y ago
South SF is the second largest hub for biotechnology and pharma in the US (if not the world) behind Boston metro, Oakland is the sixth largest (IIRC) port in the US, and the San Jose area is an important hub for high value add manufacturing (aerospace, defense, robotics, medical devices, etc). I've even heard it claimed that after the fall of Detroit, San Jose metro became the top manufacturing region in the western hemisphere by total revenue (although I don't know how to evaluate that). Just a little south and you've got a rapidly growing agtech hub thats been around for decades too. Freemium and ad based businesses are actually just a tiny fraction of the tech companies operating out of the SF Bay Area. You just dont hear about the other ones because they're not as shiny, new, or have ridiculous risk/reward profiles.
- randomdata 8y ago
  > You just dont hear about the other ones because they're not as shiny, new, or have ridiculous risk/reward profiles. But doesn't that suggest that tech is found everywhere, not just in the Valley, but we simply don't hear about it?
harimau777 8y ago
Most of that technology requires a significantly different skill set than what people generally mean when they say "tech" so I'm not sure if it really makes sense to group them together for this purpose. In my experience the set of tools used by different industries isn't the same. I moved to SF because I wanted to do web development using modern tools like React and Node as opposed to Angular 1 and Java servers.
twtw 8y ago
> fremium and ad based internet businesses And the actual silicon businesses. Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Cypress, Broadcom Limited, Marvell, Xilinx, ...
gaius 8y ago
That is the dirty little secret of “silicon roundabout” or even worse “silicon beach” in the UK. There’s no actual tech there, just various tech-enabled ad and marketing firms.

viridian 8y ago

I think this obsessive desire to have to have the best, or biggest, or most of everything is a problem. While the ROI is good there are cities that bring a more balanced plate to the table compared to the valley's extremely high barrier to entry and risk distribution. It's hard to scale a startup in California, even if the talent pool is there.

sharkweek 8y ago

> rally and see it as a huge opportunity to rebuild SF the way they want it rather than move away. Oh goodness I would love to be a fly on the wall during the debates trying to come to a consensus on this

paulie_a 8y ago

Tech is moving out of silicon valley. Tech hubs in other cities are sprouting up like weeds. And quite frankly there are people that simply don't want to live there. I know a number of people that moved away. I personally wouldn't even consider moving there unless the pay was 1 million+ a year. The shine of SV is dimishing rapidly.

kilroy123 8y ago
I'm one of these people. I refuse to live there and I agree, some what, I wouldn't move there unless I made the equivalent of $400k+ a year.
- scarface74 8y ago
  I have a friend who works at a FAANG company with a total comp of around $200K a year in a non technical role (managerial). There is no way that I would move to the west coast from the metropolitan area where I live for that amount.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  Personally 400k is substantially more than I make now but it would be an instant "no". A million, now I could endure the culture of sv, save enough in a few years and run like hell to somewhere better.
jarsin 8y ago
I feel the same way. Just to get a job with them (FANG) you have to jump through tons of hoops and study programming questions for months. Then after all that if your lucky you get to move to the bay area and rent a studio for $3k+ with a commute. Is it even possible to get a 1 million+ a year offer from these companies?
- twtw 8y ago
  There are more than 4 companies in Silicon Valley.