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As an Indian I'm not sure I endorse all this as 'anti-colonialism'. This is a bunch of government bureaucrats who want e.g. data to be stored in the country so

by firasd 8y ago

As an Indian I'm not sure I endorse all this as 'anti-colonialism'. This is a bunch of government bureaucrats who want e.g. data to be stored in the country so they can access personal info more easily...

cryptozeus 8y ago
Yeh but isn’t that currently done by googles and Faceboos of the world ?
- firasd 8y ago
  Right now if the government wants some information from Facebook they have to go through a whole process... if the info is duplicated on a server hosted by a subsidiary in India, we don't have strong protections where you can just send a questioning policeman away by saying, "get a warrant." In my view this is not just an 'India' thing, I'm kinda skeptical of the general anti-tech panic that's been brewing over the last couple years. I think the status quo is pretty good and don't want a bunch of government regulators from the US, Europe, China, India etc to be getting all up in Google's business telling them how to run Youtube.
  - eklavya 8y ago
    It’s like the whole prism thing never happened. Leave out US from all such discussions. They have everybody’s data.
    - firasd 8y ago
      We know the NSA sucks up a ton of internet traffic but what I'm referring to under the umbrella of tech debates is, for example, the wide availability of encryption (so random traffic cops can't unlock your phone), which is an ongoing debate in the US and also mentioned in this article about India.
  - IllogicalLogic 8y ago
    So, we just default to all data being siphoned into the US so it has a monopoly on PII (personal identifiable information)...? Seriously, no way any asian country should trust foreign countries, that very recently invaded/enslaved them, with their data. China, India, Russia, etc... all have domestic populations that need to flex their political muscle to achieve freedom in their respective countries, the west can't and won't save you unless there is big money involved (with that money will come foreign corruption)... Protip: Solve your problems locally, and reap the economic benefit of building your own Indian/Chinese Google... it isn't rocket science and the exercise will be good for your people.
  - cryptozeus 8y ago
    Sure because fb, google knows how to protect your data ..eh ! I agree with your general view point but no one side is right here. Solution is complicated
  - wtmt 8y ago
    > In my view this is not just an 'India' thing, I'm kinda skeptical of the general anti-tech panic that's been brewing over the last couple years. I think the status quo is pretty good and don't want a bunch of government regulators from the US, Europe, China, India etc to be getting all up in Google's business telling them how to run Youtube. Exactly. And I'd also rather we have end-to-end encryption being commonly available so that no options, except perhaps normal cellular telephony, can be trivially tapped by governments.
stevemoonto 8y ago
it is about economy. India missed the opportunity to make money compare to China where there are lots of home grown company by forcing outside not to penetrate their market
- hourislate 8y ago
  They exported their best talent to innovate for other countries. The only way they can capture some of the wealth these innovations create is to force manufacturers to do it in country. Strange that they see no value in creating and more in manufacturing.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    They see the value, everyone does. They're just not able to execute because it's a country made up of a dozen little countries that all want their share and more. To do the kind of manufacturing and industrialization China did in the time it did, you need a top down organization that does whatever is needed without having to waste time with people's "rights".
    - IllogicalLogic 8y ago
      True, people in the west expect every country is ready for free markets and freedom of speech from the get go...nope. Requires a certain level of development before freedom should be introduced. Especially post colonization, where colonial corruption agents are not fully removed from power in the systems in place.
      - reaperducer 8y ago
        In your estimation, how long will it take for India's economy to no longer be influenced by British colonization? It's been 71 years so far. A hundred years? Five hundred years? Chinese jingoists are still moaning about what the Brits did in the 1800's and blame them for every bad thing that happens between Kowloon and Mongolia today. Will India also follow that path?
xae342 8y ago
I know Russia and Indonesia have laws for this reason you mention too.
Eridrus 8y ago
Colonialism is a loaded word, but if you look at India trying to force cell phone companies to manufacture in India I think there is a clear desire to drive economic development through policy. I don't really blame them either, China offers a pretty compelling example of what state intervention in the market can do.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  China requires non-Chinese auto manufacturers to buy Chinese batteries for their EVs, but Chinese auto manufacturers are free to buy superior Korean batteries for their vehicles. Make someone else bootstrap your industries. It's smart economic policy.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Lets take a look at your claim in details. Indeed, batteries are not included in list of components that can be imported duty free to bonded customs zones, as they don't qualify for being "electronic components." But the situation is the same for all bulk commodities that have to be locally sourced. That is dictated by the initial purpose of free customs zones: give concessions on high value components, but for whatever Chinese industry was good at manufacturing back in nineties, give none. The companies wanting to make EVs, are completely free to establish companies outside of free customs zones if they don't want to pay double duty.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Were any of my claims not accurate?
      - baybal2 8y ago
        Foreign companies can go outside of free customs zones and pay duties as every other Chinese company. That's the point.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chimeracoder 8y ago
> As an Indian I'm not sure I endorse all this as 'anti-colonialism'. This is a bunch of government bureaucrats who want e.g. data to be stored in the country so they can access personal info more easily... As someone who's also Indian, and also remembers Indian pre-colonial and colonial history, I'm entirely on board with taking active measures to ensure we don't repeat the past. Yes, all governments have an incentive to spy on their citizens - just look at Australia or the US or the UK. But India has very legitimate reasons to oppose foreign control of its technological infrastructure. And unlike those other countries, India has also established a right to privacy.
- throwaway6789 8y ago
  Same here. As another Indian who wants India to be self sustaining, its high time we start focusing on creating a organic growth environment for Indian companies.
danbolt 8y ago
I want to note that in Canada a lot of government data storage is required by law to be on Canadian soil. From what I understand this is to help mitigate a foreign actor from accessing your data (eg: a search warrant in the US could pull up photos of me from my Google Drive account). I can’t speak for what it’s like in India though, and I can understand how having data locally can be an avenue for corruption like you say.

by firasd 8y ago

cryptozeus 8y ago

Yeh but isn’t that currently done by googles and Faceboos of the world ?

firasd 8y ago
Right now if the government wants some information from Facebook they have to go through a whole process... if the info is duplicated on a server hosted by a subsidiary in India, we don't have strong protections where you can just send a questioning policeman away by saying, "get a warrant." In my view this is not just an 'India' thing, I'm kinda skeptical of the general anti-tech panic that's been brewing over the last couple years. I think the status quo is pretty good and don't want a bunch of government regulators from the US, Europe, China, India etc to be getting all up in Google's business telling them how to run Youtube.
- eklavya 8y ago
  It’s like the whole prism thing never happened. Leave out US from all such discussions. They have everybody’s data.
  - firasd 8y ago
    We know the NSA sucks up a ton of internet traffic but what I'm referring to under the umbrella of tech debates is, for example, the wide availability of encryption (so random traffic cops can't unlock your phone), which is an ongoing debate in the US and also mentioned in this article about India.
- IllogicalLogic 8y ago
  So, we just default to all data being siphoned into the US so it has a monopoly on PII (personal identifiable information)...? Seriously, no way any asian country should trust foreign countries, that very recently invaded/enslaved them, with their data. China, India, Russia, etc... all have domestic populations that need to flex their political muscle to achieve freedom in their respective countries, the west can't and won't save you unless there is big money involved (with that money will come foreign corruption)... Protip: Solve your problems locally, and reap the economic benefit of building your own Indian/Chinese Google... it isn't rocket science and the exercise will be good for your people.
- cryptozeus 8y ago
  Sure because fb, google knows how to protect your data ..eh ! I agree with your general view point but no one side is right here. Solution is complicated
- wtmt 8y ago
  > In my view this is not just an 'India' thing, I'm kinda skeptical of the general anti-tech panic that's been brewing over the last couple years. I think the status quo is pretty good and don't want a bunch of government regulators from the US, Europe, China, India etc to be getting all up in Google's business telling them how to run Youtube. Exactly. And I'd also rather we have end-to-end encryption being commonly available so that no options, except perhaps normal cellular telephony, can be trivially tapped by governments.

stevemoonto 8y ago

it is about economy. India missed the opportunity to make money compare to China where there are lots of home grown company by forcing outside not to penetrate their market

hourislate 8y ago
They exported their best talent to innovate for other countries. The only way they can capture some of the wealth these innovations create is to force manufacturers to do it in country. Strange that they see no value in creating and more in manufacturing.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  They see the value, everyone does. They're just not able to execute because it's a country made up of a dozen little countries that all want their share and more. To do the kind of manufacturing and industrialization China did in the time it did, you need a top down organization that does whatever is needed without having to waste time with people's "rights".
  - IllogicalLogic 8y ago
    True, people in the west expect every country is ready for free markets and freedom of speech from the get go...nope. Requires a certain level of development before freedom should be introduced. Especially post colonization, where colonial corruption agents are not fully removed from power in the systems in place.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      In your estimation, how long will it take for India's economy to no longer be influenced by British colonization? It's been 71 years so far. A hundred years? Five hundred years? Chinese jingoists are still moaning about what the Brits did in the 1800's and blame them for every bad thing that happens between Kowloon and Mongolia today. Will India also follow that path?

xae342 8y ago

I know Russia and Indonesia have laws for this reason you mention too.

Eridrus 8y ago

Colonialism is a loaded word, but if you look at India trying to force cell phone companies to manufacture in India I think there is a clear desire to drive economic development through policy. I don't really blame them either, China offers a pretty compelling example of what state intervention in the market can do.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
China requires non-Chinese auto manufacturers to buy Chinese batteries for their EVs, but Chinese auto manufacturers are free to buy superior Korean batteries for their vehicles. Make someone else bootstrap your industries. It's smart economic policy.
- baybal2 8y ago
  Lets take a look at your claim in details. Indeed, batteries are not included in list of components that can be imported duty free to bonded customs zones, as they don't qualify for being "electronic components." But the situation is the same for all bulk commodities that have to be locally sourced. That is dictated by the initial purpose of free customs zones: give concessions on high value components, but for whatever Chinese industry was good at manufacturing back in nineties, give none. The companies wanting to make EVs, are completely free to establish companies outside of free customs zones if they don't want to pay double duty.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Were any of my claims not accurate?
    - baybal2 8y ago
      Foreign companies can go outside of free customs zones and pay duties as every other Chinese company. That's the point.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

chimeracoder 8y ago

> As an Indian I'm not sure I endorse all this as 'anti-colonialism'. This is a bunch of government bureaucrats who want e.g. data to be stored in the country so they can access personal info more easily... As someone who's also Indian, and also remembers Indian pre-colonial and colonial history, I'm entirely on board with taking active measures to ensure we don't repeat the past. Yes, all governments have an incentive to spy on their citizens - just look at Australia or the US or the UK. But India has very legitimate reasons to oppose foreign control of its technological infrastructure. And unlike those other countries, India has also established a right to privacy.

throwaway6789 8y ago
Same here. As another Indian who wants India to be self sustaining, its high time we start focusing on creating a organic growth environment for Indian companies.

danbolt 8y ago

I want to note that in Canada a lot of government data storage is required by law to be on Canadian soil. From what I understand this is to help mitigate a foreign actor from accessing your data (eg: a search warrant in the US could pull up photos of me from my Google Drive account). I can’t speak for what it’s like in India though, and I can understand how having data locally can be an avenue for corruption like you say.