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It's not like they haven't got a history of doing this. Remember when the iPhone had "no chance" of "any significant market share"?[0] [0] https://usatoday30.u

It's not like they haven't got a history of doing this. Remember when the iPhone had "no chance" of "any significant market share"?[0] [0] https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2007-04-29-ballmer-ceo-forum-usat_N.htm https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2...

ianai 8y ago
They also spread plenty of FUD around all things Linux too.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  It went quite a bit further than just FUD.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
And when the Web was irrelevant. Bill Gates and patent troll Nathan Myrvhold wrote a while book unironically displaying their utter lack of vision about the industry. Their while business is a mix of making bland weak copies of more popular software to run on their decades old Windows entrenchment, Xbox, and a few nice keyboard and mice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Bill_Gates_book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Bill_Gates_b...
- reaperducer 8y ago
  I read an old magazine article a few weeks ago where Bill Gates was talking about how the internet isn't necessary outside of businesses. That having a computer use a phone line to dial up to a central server once or twice a day is all anyone needs. This was back when 2400 baud was considered super fast. Steve Jobs may have had some bad qualities (many of them irrationally amplified in the "Jobs-bad-Woz-good" revisionist history SV jealousy echo chamber), but he was one hell of a futurist.
  - danso 8y ago
    What revisionist history?
    - nailer 8y ago
      A lot of people discredit Jobs' creative vision due to disliking his personality, and, if they're engineers, like to overemphasize Woz because he's an engineer.
      - colordrops 8y ago
        Maybe 10 years ago that was true.
        nailer 8y ago
        What do you think changed those people's minds? My feeling is that in the years post Jobs' death negative stories about his personality have been increasingly common. For the record: I believe Jobs definitely deserves the credit, I'm just observing the mud that has been slung his way.
        danso 8y ago
        Stories about his negative side are likely more common because people feel more free to talk about them, now that Jobs, being dead, can no longer respond or retaliate against people with grievances, such as the daughter he disavowed [0]. I perhaps unfairly read negative connotations in your use of "revisionist", but I see nothing wrong with adding Jobs' uglier side to the historical record. It doesn't change what he accomplished, and it's something we can learn from. I do question the idea that Woz has been irrationally overemphasized. By the time the iPod was dominant, and a year before the iPhone, Woz felt so left out of the historical record that he published his autobiography to set the record straight, particularly about the misconception that Jobs himself invented/built the Apple I and ][ machine. Even then, Woz gives clear credit to Jobs for having the entrepreneurial sense and vision to make Apple a company, whereas Woz was perfectly content to work at HP for all his days. After the iPhone, Woz became even more a part of Apple's ancient, forgotten history. He was a bit character in the Jobs' movies came out, and AFAIK, no movie yet has been made about Woz's life. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-steve-jobs-denied-lisa-brennan-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-stev...
reaperducer 8y ago
FTA: "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get." I wonder what the maximum penetration was for Windows OSes on phones. "...my 85-year-old uncle probably will never own an iPod, and I hope we'll get him to own a Zune." What's a Zune? /s
- isostatic 8y ago
  <i>What's a Zune?</i> It's the think starlord got at the end of guardians of the galaxy 2. Still, at least it didn't suffer like the ipod -- it had No wireless and Less space than a Nomad. It was "Lame".
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    But you could ‘squirt’ songs from one Zune to another. The Zune was a litany of poor decisions, but that word choice must have been the worst.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      I think you are correct. Though, I also found the word "squircle†" amusing, and still use it when the opportunity arises. The Zune was the first time I'd heard it used outside of math nerds trying to out-nerd each other. † https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squircle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squircle
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      From the company that brought you “wince.”
      - mattkevan 8y ago
        And MicroSoft
awucs 8y ago
People often quote that, but I don't think he was necessarily wrong. What happened wasn't really so much between Apple and Microsoft, as Google giving away Android. That made all the other, arguably better, offerings redundant. Also letting Apple take a lot more market share because of quality and fragmentation issues. Almost no one makes any money from smart phones. Microsoft is probably fourth in terms of profit (from patents and such) behind Apple, Google and Samsung. Though Microsoft might have lost more in terms of influence and maneuvering. Addition: Which part, if any, are the downvoters objecting to? From the people I have talked to in the industry that is exactly what happened and why a lot of companies got out of it.
- ChrisSD 8y ago
  The iPhone was beating MS phones before Android was even a thing[0]. They were certainly way more than "2% or 3%" in the markets they operated in. I can't see how Ballmer's statement was even slightly correct. [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/05/iphone-with-28-of-u-s-smartphone-marketshare-for-q4-2007/ https://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/05/iphone-with-28-of-u-s-s...
  - awucs 8y ago
    I don't think "2% or 3%" was very realistic, but you have to remember that when the iPhone first came out it wasn't very good. I didn't have 3G, GPS or App Store (nor a couple of other things). Apple was certainly ahead, but the market also wasn't ready nor big at that. When it actually matured there were a couple of solid offerings including from Microsoft, which among other things had arguably better design than Android. But at that point the market was moving on. The non-Apple market was no longer about selling the operating system or phones but apps, ads, components or accessories. If people want to go "Haha Microsoft" I guess that is fine, but they didn't lose to Apple.
    - IkmoIkmo 8y ago
      > (nor a couple of other things). Some other fun ones to mention: didn't let you copy/paste text (for the first 2 years of iPhone), didn't let you record video, and didn't let you make a selfie while looking at the screen. (no front-facing camera)

ianai 8y ago

They also spread plenty of FUD around all things Linux too.

jacquesm 8y ago
It went quite a bit further than just FUD.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

And when the Web was irrelevant. Bill Gates and patent troll Nathan Myrvhold wrote a while book unironically displaying their utter lack of vision about the industry. Their while business is a mix of making bland weak copies of more popular software to run on their decades old Windows entrenchment, Xbox, and a few nice keyboard and mice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Bill_Gates_book) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Bill_Gates_b...

reaperducer 8y ago
I read an old magazine article a few weeks ago where Bill Gates was talking about how the internet isn't necessary outside of businesses. That having a computer use a phone line to dial up to a central server once or twice a day is all anyone needs. This was back when 2400 baud was considered super fast. Steve Jobs may have had some bad qualities (many of them irrationally amplified in the "Jobs-bad-Woz-good" revisionist history SV jealousy echo chamber), but he was one hell of a futurist.
- danso 8y ago
  What revisionist history?
  - nailer 8y ago
    A lot of people discredit Jobs' creative vision due to disliking his personality, and, if they're engineers, like to overemphasize Woz because he's an engineer.
    - colordrops 8y ago
      Maybe 10 years ago that was true.
      - nailer 8y ago
        What do you think changed those people's minds? My feeling is that in the years post Jobs' death negative stories about his personality have been increasingly common. For the record: I believe Jobs definitely deserves the credit, I'm just observing the mud that has been slung his way.
        danso 8y ago
        Stories about his negative side are likely more common because people feel more free to talk about them, now that Jobs, being dead, can no longer respond or retaliate against people with grievances, such as the daughter he disavowed [0]. I perhaps unfairly read negative connotations in your use of "revisionist", but I see nothing wrong with adding Jobs' uglier side to the historical record. It doesn't change what he accomplished, and it's something we can learn from. I do question the idea that Woz has been irrationally overemphasized. By the time the iPod was dominant, and a year before the iPhone, Woz felt so left out of the historical record that he published his autobiography to set the record straight, particularly about the misconception that Jobs himself invented/built the Apple I and ][ machine. Even then, Woz gives clear credit to Jobs for having the entrepreneurial sense and vision to make Apple a company, whereas Woz was perfectly content to work at HP for all his days. After the iPhone, Woz became even more a part of Apple's ancient, forgotten history. He was a bit character in the Jobs' movies came out, and AFAIK, no movie yet has been made about Woz's life. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-steve-jobs-denied-lisa-brennan-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/01/daughter-stev...

reaperducer 8y ago

FTA: "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get." I wonder what the maximum penetration was for Windows OSes on phones. "...my 85-year-old uncle probably will never own an iPod, and I hope we'll get him to own a Zune." What's a Zune? /s

isostatic 8y ago
<i>What's a Zune?</i> It's the think starlord got at the end of guardians of the galaxy 2. Still, at least it didn't suffer like the ipod -- it had No wireless and Less space than a Nomad. It was "Lame".
- mattkevan 8y ago
  But you could ‘squirt’ songs from one Zune to another. The Zune was a litany of poor decisions, but that word choice must have been the worst.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    I think you are correct. Though, I also found the word "squircle†" amusing, and still use it when the opportunity arises. The Zune was the first time I'd heard it used outside of math nerds trying to out-nerd each other. † https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squircle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squircle
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    From the company that brought you “wince.”
    - mattkevan 8y ago
      And MicroSoft

awucs 8y ago

People often quote that, but I don't think he was necessarily wrong. What happened wasn't really so much between Apple and Microsoft, as Google giving away Android. That made all the other, arguably better, offerings redundant. Also letting Apple take a lot more market share because of quality and fragmentation issues. Almost no one makes any money from smart phones. Microsoft is probably fourth in terms of profit (from patents and such) behind Apple, Google and Samsung. Though Microsoft might have lost more in terms of influence and maneuvering. Addition: Which part, if any, are the downvoters objecting to? From the people I have talked to in the industry that is exactly what happened and why a lot of companies got out of it.

ChrisSD 8y ago
The iPhone was beating MS phones before Android was even a thing[0]. They were certainly way more than "2% or 3%" in the markets they operated in. I can't see how Ballmer's statement was even slightly correct. [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/05/iphone-with-28-of-u-s-smartphone-marketshare-for-q4-2007/ https://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/05/iphone-with-28-of-u-s-s...
- awucs 8y ago
  I don't think "2% or 3%" was very realistic, but you have to remember that when the iPhone first came out it wasn't very good. I didn't have 3G, GPS or App Store (nor a couple of other things). Apple was certainly ahead, but the market also wasn't ready nor big at that. When it actually matured there were a couple of solid offerings including from Microsoft, which among other things had arguably better design than Android. But at that point the market was moving on. The non-Apple market was no longer about selling the operating system or phones but apps, ads, components or accessories. If people want to go "Haha Microsoft" I guess that is fine, but they didn't lose to Apple.
  - IkmoIkmo 8y ago
    > (nor a couple of other things). Some other fun ones to mention: didn't let you copy/paste text (for the first 2 years of iPhone), didn't let you record video, and didn't let you make a selfie while looking at the screen. (no front-facing camera)