6 ms·

This is a good and simple thing to focus on. My working theory—-as a parent of a soon-to-be teenager—was that teens are missing out on any true responsibility.

by aklemm 8y ago

This is a good and simple thing to focus on. My working theory—-as a parent of a soon-to-be teenager—was that teens are missing out on any true responsibility. No one expects them to do anything that actually is crucial to the family or community. That said, I don’t yet know what that will be for my kids. Maybe some kind of service thing weekly, or maybe it’s some critical chores.

ddingus 8y ago
We incorporated our teens into the family. They did not always get it right. But, when that happened, everyone looking to them? Yeah, they see they matter. IMHO, some of this is a very good thing. No need to load them down. Childhood is special. But, having a thing or few that they actually own is good all around. I was brought up a similar way. I valued it
- autarch 8y ago
  "into the family" ... what? Did you mean to say "family business"? If so, please post more details, that sounds interesting.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Everyone, as they gain skill, and begin to "wake up" as people, ownes something. It is not just a chore. Others won't do it. Intended. Or, if they do, it is a debt of sorts. Consequenses. Say the cat box gets too dirty. The bathroom stinks. People notice, but more importantly, the one who owns it notices eventually. Then the dots get connected. My wife would have them do meals, planning, money, store. And then make them do it. We ate the outcome. Lol (was interesting at times) Doing it this way does carry some risk. Say a light meal because someone did not think it through the planning, or shitty school lunch one day because same, or someone got the munchies. But, just make sure it is livable, not super ugly. I did car stuff, fixing things. The kids would check things, and do upkeep. I did double check these. But out of sight. Oil, lights, tires. Same for the yard. For a time, I was self employed. One older daughter did billing and books. Think language immersion. It is like that. Let them sink, and they will swim. Or, if not, pull them out, let them be kids, and try again. Often they would ask me for something.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
ksdale 8y ago
I have much younger kids, and we also think this is very important. It seems like everything in a kid's life is so nerfed. For us it starts with letting the kids do things on the playground with an actual risk of injury (obviously we're trying to avoid actual serious injury, but we think the kids need agency). It also involves letting them make decisions that can have bad outcomes that are largely harmless when they're young, like getting a stomach ache from too much candy, and clearly connecting the act to the consequence. So far it's worked pretty well, our kids have a good idea of what's healthy and what's not. We're also going to do something like set up Etsy stores for the kids so that they get experience with buying supplies and making a product that's good enough for a stranger to buy, manipulating the web page (and eventually we'll move on to them making making their own Shopify or Wordpress sites), and running social media accounts for the businesses and what not. We're already getting one store started for our five year old who's really interested in making money (for now). We're doing a lot of it now, but we're planning on having them take on more and more responsibility as they get older. Instead of doing chores (or in addition), they'll be actually interacting with the world in a way that's analagous to adulthood. Who knows how it will play out, but we're excited to see what happens.
- alsetmusic 8y ago
  Teach them to do their own laundry. I ruined most of my clothes when I moved out and an 18 yro has no budget to replace a wardrobe. I’m still annoyed that I wasn’t taught something so simple.
  - astura 8y ago
    What sort of mistake can you make to ruin clothes? Use bleach?
    - MagnumOpus 8y ago
      Washing them at 90 degrees, drying stuff that isn't supposed to be dried.
      - 8y ago
corysama 8y ago
Paul Graham has a great article about how high schoolers are basically stuck in a situation of no responsibility, no consequences. And, so naturally they fall back on cliques and highly elevated social consequences for inconsequential issues just to have something at all matter in their lives. The same thing happens in prisons, for example. He points out that a young (white male because of the times) would be responsible for a trade or even land by the time he was 20 in medieval times. But, today we expect “kids” to basically be babysat until they are 21. No wonder they rebel.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Rebellion and questioning authority is also a vital part of growing up.
  - badpun 8y ago
    I'm not sure if that's not a modern concept. I can't imagine that much rebelling going on in pre-modern times. Back then, father of the family was the ultimate authority, and also one of the few sources of knowledge about life skills that was actually available for children to learn from (unlike now, when the world changes so fast that parents' knowledge can be obsotele and even counterproductive for children, and they know that).
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
    Not really - not everyone feels like they have things to rebel against. My spouse was one of those. He never really felt like he had anything to rebel against. By the time he was a teenager, it had been established that his limits were reasonable. Sure, he questioned why something was so, but always got an actual reason. Sure, he says he was a jerk and stuff, but that's immaturity. Rebellion? No need. One of the things we got taught in civics classes after I moved to Norway was that parents had no right to choose a child's friends/boyfriend/girlfriend nor what they'll study in the last few years of school. On the other hand, I lied to my mother regularly just to do normal stuff. If I left the mall to eat at a place that sat in the parking lot, I was supposed to call to get permission first. I wasn't allowed to go to anyone's house without my mother talking to their parents to make sure it was OK. I had to quit a job because my parents didn't want me working every weekend and had no choice but to go to church on sundays and many times, the reason for a limit was "because I said so". MY father was much more lenient: He'd ask some basic questions and tell me what time to be home, giving me a chance to ask for a later time dependent on plans (he'd let me stay later for a later movie, for example, if I had a way home). It all depends on what sorts of limits you have and how reasonable they are. Even to a teenager.
bcantrill 8y ago
For my kids, scouting has been huge for this: they get true, meaningful responsibility; they learn to serve the community; they get to be with their buddies; they get to push themselves physically; they attain life skills; they have experiences that they wouldn't otherwise have; and they get to explore the outdoors. Your mileage may vary of course -- but I highly recommended scouting as a fun and engaging way to generate responsible young adults.
dhimes 8y ago
It's worse than that. There's basically no activity that they can do that doesn't have parents/adults involved. There's no way for them to just go out, make mistakes and figure stuff out any more.
- killjoywashere 8y ago
  Bullshit. My kids lived for years within 10 houses of a trailhead. They could have explored 20 miles of trails on any given day. Not once. Not ever. No one goes outside. And the soccer moms are now Facebook moms, their own screentime making them so anxious that the vanishingly low possibility that some kid could get kidnapped is enough that they don't throw the kids outside and lock the door. Being locked out of the house was my default state most summers.
  - dhimes 8y ago
    Same. I see moms sitting in cars when near their kids at the bus stop. It's freaking ridiculous. If the kids started walking or playing in those trails, I bet some adult would start coming along to supervise. Probably make the kids sign up for an outdoor camp or scouts instead.
    - astura 8y ago
      I find parents 1) bringing kids to the bus stop (if they are getting into the car just bring them all the way to school!) and 2) waiting there with them (wtf?) absolutely the most bizarre thing ever. Crazy! People do that here with preteens and teens! FFS!

by aklemm 8y ago

ddingus 8y ago

We incorporated our teens into the family. They did not always get it right. But, when that happened, everyone looking to them? Yeah, they see they matter. IMHO, some of this is a very good thing. No need to load them down. Childhood is special. But, having a thing or few that they actually own is good all around. I was brought up a similar way. I valued it

autarch 8y ago
"into the family" ... what? Did you mean to say "family business"? If so, please post more details, that sounds interesting.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Everyone, as they gain skill, and begin to "wake up" as people, ownes something. It is not just a chore. Others won't do it. Intended. Or, if they do, it is a debt of sorts. Consequenses. Say the cat box gets too dirty. The bathroom stinks. People notice, but more importantly, the one who owns it notices eventually. Then the dots get connected. My wife would have them do meals, planning, money, store. And then make them do it. We ate the outcome. Lol (was interesting at times) Doing it this way does carry some risk. Say a light meal because someone did not think it through the planning, or shitty school lunch one day because same, or someone got the munchies. But, just make sure it is livable, not super ugly. I did car stuff, fixing things. The kids would check things, and do upkeep. I did double check these. But out of sight. Oil, lights, tires. Same for the yard. For a time, I was self employed. One older daughter did billing and books. Think language immersion. It is like that. Let them sink, and they will swim. Or, if not, pull them out, let them be kids, and try again. Often they would ask me for something.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

ksdale 8y ago

I have much younger kids, and we also think this is very important. It seems like everything in a kid's life is so nerfed. For us it starts with letting the kids do things on the playground with an actual risk of injury (obviously we're trying to avoid actual serious injury, but we think the kids need agency). It also involves letting them make decisions that can have bad outcomes that are largely harmless when they're young, like getting a stomach ache from too much candy, and clearly connecting the act to the consequence. So far it's worked pretty well, our kids have a good idea of what's healthy and what's not. We're also going to do something like set up Etsy stores for the kids so that they get experience with buying supplies and making a product that's good enough for a stranger to buy, manipulating the web page (and eventually we'll move on to them making making their own Shopify or Wordpress sites), and running social media accounts for the businesses and what not. We're already getting one store started for our five year old who's really interested in making money (for now). We're doing a lot of it now, but we're planning on having them take on more and more responsibility as they get older. Instead of doing chores (or in addition), they'll be actually interacting with the world in a way that's analagous to adulthood. Who knows how it will play out, but we're excited to see what happens.

alsetmusic 8y ago
Teach them to do their own laundry. I ruined most of my clothes when I moved out and an 18 yro has no budget to replace a wardrobe. I’m still annoyed that I wasn’t taught something so simple.
- astura 8y ago
  What sort of mistake can you make to ruin clothes? Use bleach?
  - MagnumOpus 8y ago
    Washing them at 90 degrees, drying stuff that isn't supposed to be dried.
    - 8y ago

corysama 8y ago

Paul Graham has a great article about how high schoolers are basically stuck in a situation of no responsibility, no consequences. And, so naturally they fall back on cliques and highly elevated social consequences for inconsequential issues just to have something at all matter in their lives. The same thing happens in prisons, for example. He points out that a young (white male because of the times) would be responsible for a trade or even land by the time he was 20 in medieval times. But, today we expect “kids” to basically be babysat until they are 21. No wonder they rebel.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
Rebellion and questioning authority is also a vital part of growing up.
- badpun 8y ago
  I'm not sure if that's not a modern concept. I can't imagine that much rebelling going on in pre-modern times. Back then, father of the family was the ultimate authority, and also one of the few sources of knowledge about life skills that was actually available for children to learn from (unlike now, when the world changes so fast that parents' knowledge can be obsotele and even counterproductive for children, and they know that).
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  Not really - not everyone feels like they have things to rebel against. My spouse was one of those. He never really felt like he had anything to rebel against. By the time he was a teenager, it had been established that his limits were reasonable. Sure, he questioned why something was so, but always got an actual reason. Sure, he says he was a jerk and stuff, but that's immaturity. Rebellion? No need. One of the things we got taught in civics classes after I moved to Norway was that parents had no right to choose a child's friends/boyfriend/girlfriend nor what they'll study in the last few years of school. On the other hand, I lied to my mother regularly just to do normal stuff. If I left the mall to eat at a place that sat in the parking lot, I was supposed to call to get permission first. I wasn't allowed to go to anyone's house without my mother talking to their parents to make sure it was OK. I had to quit a job because my parents didn't want me working every weekend and had no choice but to go to church on sundays and many times, the reason for a limit was "because I said so". MY father was much more lenient: He'd ask some basic questions and tell me what time to be home, giving me a chance to ask for a later time dependent on plans (he'd let me stay later for a later movie, for example, if I had a way home). It all depends on what sorts of limits you have and how reasonable they are. Even to a teenager.

bcantrill 8y ago

For my kids, scouting has been huge for this: they get true, meaningful responsibility; they learn to serve the community; they get to be with their buddies; they get to push themselves physically; they attain life skills; they have experiences that they wouldn't otherwise have; and they get to explore the outdoors. Your mileage may vary of course -- but I highly recommended scouting as a fun and engaging way to generate responsible young adults.

dhimes 8y ago

It's worse than that. There's basically no activity that they can do that doesn't have parents/adults involved. There's no way for them to just go out, make mistakes and figure stuff out any more.

killjoywashere 8y ago
Bullshit. My kids lived for years within 10 houses of a trailhead. They could have explored 20 miles of trails on any given day. Not once. Not ever. No one goes outside. And the soccer moms are now Facebook moms, their own screentime making them so anxious that the vanishingly low possibility that some kid could get kidnapped is enough that they don't throw the kids outside and lock the door. Being locked out of the house was my default state most summers.
- dhimes 8y ago
  Same. I see moms sitting in cars when near their kids at the bus stop. It's freaking ridiculous. If the kids started walking or playing in those trails, I bet some adult would start coming along to supervise. Probably make the kids sign up for an outdoor camp or scouts instead.
  - astura 8y ago
    I find parents 1) bringing kids to the bus stop (if they are getting into the car just bring them all the way to school!) and 2) waiting there with them (wtf?) absolutely the most bizarre thing ever. Crazy! People do that here with preteens and teens! FFS!