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The most surprising here isn't the landslide 80% in favor. It's the 4.6 million responses [0] for this type of citizen consultation. That's huge. Hopefully t's

The most surprising here isn't the landslide 80% in favor. It's the 4.6 million responses [0] for this type of citizen consultation. That's huge. Hopefully t's will get crossed and i's will get dotted before winter time kicks in this year. [0]: https://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2018/08/31/la-commission-europeenne-prone-la-fin-de-l-heure-d-hiver_5348420_3214.html https://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2018/08/31/la-commissi...

mnw21cam 8y ago
Are you aware how slowly the wheels of EU bureaucracy turn?
- ddebernardy 8y ago
  Indeed, but there's nothing in the institutions that should prevent anything from going fast when planets align, and that one looks like a no brainer. They consulted at the request of the Parliament. Junker took note of the unusual popularity of the consultation and the strength of the consensus. Northern countries (Finland, Baltic countries) have been calling for it for years. More cynically, it's unusual enough for the Commission to have a popular topic on their plate. So better get media attention for that, than for sulfurous topics like the migration crisis or boring ones like the EU's multi-annual budget.
- thefounder 8y ago
  It's a recommendation after all so once it's voted the speed is really determined by each local government/member state.
apexalpha 8y ago
It's not huge at all: it is less than 1% of the population. The fact that this is used to justify 'the people want it' is hilarious. 1) People who care about abolishing it are way more likely to vote. 2) It depended heavily on media broadcasting the fact that it exists. This is why 90% of the 4M people are German; their media picked it up. Whether you want to get rid of it or not; both are fine. However, this poll isn't a reasonable argument in favour of it.
- blattimwind 8y ago
  > 90% 65 %.
- ddebernardy 8y ago
  Respectfully disagree 1% of the population answering a public consultation by the EU is low. On the contrary, it strikes me as fairly large. It wasn't a widely advertised referendum where everyone was asked for their opinion. It was a consultation that got picked up by a few media outlets (and HN if memory serves me well). Public interest was high enough that millions took note and answered. Plus, it's the EU - which nobody ever hears about in my neck of the woods. Most of the time, nobody hears about these consultations [0] except the small circle of interest groups that lobby EU institutions. Much like on Capital Hill across the pond, their input, rather than that of the general public, is what makes or breaks legislation. In that context, getting 4.6M answers from the general public is a reasonable argument in favor. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations_en
- gsich 8y ago
  People who didn't vote are fine with either way. But it's only a poll.
- toyg 8y ago
  It's basically become the first EU-wide referendum on a topic completely disjointed from party politics. As such, it's historic. If "your" media didn't pick it up, blame them. What happens in the EU matters more than national squabbles.
y4mi 8y ago
> Hopefully t's will get crossed and i's will get dotted before winter time kicks in this year. I agree, it would be great if the recommendation to abolish daylight saving gets passed within the next months. actually abolishing it should be planned at least one year into the future, it would be a nightmare otherwise. There are so many systems in place that are automatically switching between time zones, and all of them need to be deprecated. such a change cant be done within ~2 month.
- gerikson 8y ago
  Russia moved over to constant DST with around 6 weeks notice a few years ago. It was chaos.
pmontra 8y ago
I answered the poll. I'm happy with the current system but I answered that if we have to change it I'd take permanent daylight savings, which is what they are proposing now. The rationale is that I like to have light late in summer. Early morning will be colder in winter but it's always too cold anyway so who cares. As a reference, Spain has been in the wrong time zone for decades (GMT+1 instead of GMT) but they have no problems with that.
- gsich 8y ago
  >As a reference, Spain has been in the wrong time zone for decades (GMT+1 instead of GMT) but they have no problems with that. Only that their lifestyle is approximateley 1 hour shifted. Stuff like eating at 21:00 or 22:00.
  - lagadu 8y ago
    Portugal eats at that same time and aren't shifted one hour. Dinner is just later than most for us southerners.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Markoff 8y ago
    honestly that's hours 2-3 hours shifted compared to anywhere I've been, most of the people eat dinner at 18-19 unless you work late
- scalesolved 8y ago
  Actually it causes a lot of problems according to some sources here,https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/22/spaniards-sleep-time-zone-spain https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/22/spania... It's also odd getting up at 7am here and it's still pretty darkish in August.
- narag 8y ago
  Of course. If there is a... misleading argument in this discussion is the one about the "wrong" time zone. What's "wrong" supposed to mean in this context? Time zones and legal hour is just a convention. Whole Europe uses only three time zones and the whole world could just use UTC and nothing would happen. The legal hour doesn't change when the sun raises or sets, just what we call it and people would adapt very quickly. Companies will also adapt changing hours once the government stops meddling. In Spain the real problem is the brain dead broken hours with a huge gap in the middle for "lunch". That's a relic from the time after the war when most people had two jobs and some companies are very reluctant to change it because of the butt-time mindset or other idiotic reasons.
Markoff 8y ago
i think it was actually 84% for abolishing change and majority for keeping summer time, 3mil of participants Germans, i was one of those outside Germany, found out about it last day of survey, dunno why this was not publicly announced for more representative results i am not even sure it was anonymous, but you could provide them also reasoning, my was - good luck explaining small baby/child why it has to move its sleep by one hour, children need routine, otherwise have problem to sleep never experienced this nonsense in eastern Asia, anyway everyone use artificial lightning, no matter what time you are following as for swift change, i think it was already approved we will change hours until 2024 until they will also cancel agreed plan

mnw21cam 8y ago

Are you aware how slowly the wheels of EU bureaucracy turn?

ddebernardy 8y ago
Indeed, but there's nothing in the institutions that should prevent anything from going fast when planets align, and that one looks like a no brainer. They consulted at the request of the Parliament. Junker took note of the unusual popularity of the consultation and the strength of the consensus. Northern countries (Finland, Baltic countries) have been calling for it for years. More cynically, it's unusual enough for the Commission to have a popular topic on their plate. So better get media attention for that, than for sulfurous topics like the migration crisis or boring ones like the EU's multi-annual budget.
thefounder 8y ago
It's a recommendation after all so once it's voted the speed is really determined by each local government/member state.

apexalpha 8y ago

It's not huge at all: it is less than 1% of the population. The fact that this is used to justify 'the people want it' is hilarious. 1) People who care about abolishing it are way more likely to vote. 2) It depended heavily on media broadcasting the fact that it exists. This is why 90% of the 4M people are German; their media picked it up. Whether you want to get rid of it or not; both are fine. However, this poll isn't a reasonable argument in favour of it.

blattimwind 8y ago
> 90% 65 %.
ddebernardy 8y ago
Respectfully disagree 1% of the population answering a public consultation by the EU is low. On the contrary, it strikes me as fairly large. It wasn't a widely advertised referendum where everyone was asked for their opinion. It was a consultation that got picked up by a few media outlets (and HN if memory serves me well). Public interest was high enough that millions took note and answered. Plus, it's the EU - which nobody ever hears about in my neck of the woods. Most of the time, nobody hears about these consultations [0] except the small circle of interest groups that lobby EU institutions. Much like on Capital Hill across the pond, their input, rather than that of the general public, is what makes or breaks legislation. In that context, getting 4.6M answers from the general public is a reasonable argument in favor. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations_en
gsich 8y ago
People who didn't vote are fine with either way. But it's only a poll.
toyg 8y ago
It's basically become the first EU-wide referendum on a topic completely disjointed from party politics. As such, it's historic. If "your" media didn't pick it up, blame them. What happens in the EU matters more than national squabbles.

y4mi 8y ago

> Hopefully t's will get crossed and i's will get dotted before winter time kicks in this year. I agree, it would be great if the recommendation to abolish daylight saving gets passed within the next months. actually abolishing it should be planned at least one year into the future, it would be a nightmare otherwise. There are so many systems in place that are automatically switching between time zones, and all of them need to be deprecated. such a change cant be done within ~2 month.

gerikson 8y ago
Russia moved over to constant DST with around 6 weeks notice a few years ago. It was chaos.

pmontra 8y ago

I answered the poll. I'm happy with the current system but I answered that if we have to change it I'd take permanent daylight savings, which is what they are proposing now. The rationale is that I like to have light late in summer. Early morning will be colder in winter but it's always too cold anyway so who cares. As a reference, Spain has been in the wrong time zone for decades (GMT+1 instead of GMT) but they have no problems with that.

gsich 8y ago
>As a reference, Spain has been in the wrong time zone for decades (GMT+1 instead of GMT) but they have no problems with that. Only that their lifestyle is approximateley 1 hour shifted. Stuff like eating at 21:00 or 22:00.
- lagadu 8y ago
  Portugal eats at that same time and aren't shifted one hour. Dinner is just later than most for us southerners.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Markoff 8y ago
  honestly that's hours 2-3 hours shifted compared to anywhere I've been, most of the people eat dinner at 18-19 unless you work late
scalesolved 8y ago
Actually it causes a lot of problems according to some sources here,https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/22/spaniards-sleep-time-zone-spain https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/22/spania... It's also odd getting up at 7am here and it's still pretty darkish in August.
narag 8y ago
Of course. If there is a... misleading argument in this discussion is the one about the "wrong" time zone. What's "wrong" supposed to mean in this context? Time zones and legal hour is just a convention. Whole Europe uses only three time zones and the whole world could just use UTC and nothing would happen. The legal hour doesn't change when the sun raises or sets, just what we call it and people would adapt very quickly. Companies will also adapt changing hours once the government stops meddling. In Spain the real problem is the brain dead broken hours with a huge gap in the middle for "lunch". That's a relic from the time after the war when most people had two jobs and some companies are very reluctant to change it because of the butt-time mindset or other idiotic reasons.

Markoff 8y ago

i think it was actually 84% for abolishing change and majority for keeping summer time, 3mil of participants Germans, i was one of those outside Germany, found out about it last day of survey, dunno why this was not publicly announced for more representative results i am not even sure it was anonymous, but you could provide them also reasoning, my was - good luck explaining small baby/child why it has to move its sleep by one hour, children need routine, otherwise have problem to sleep never experienced this nonsense in eastern Asia, anyway everyone use artificial lightning, no matter what time you are following as for swift change, i think it was already approved we will change hours until 2024 until they will also cancel agreed plan