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If you say you support something, but don't want to take actions that demonstrably promote what you are supporting, you are virtue signalling. It's quite simple

by x220 8y ago

If you say you support something, but don't want to take actions that demonstrably promote what you are supporting, you are virtue signalling. It's quite simple, and it's maddening.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
But they are taking actions. You're trying to complain that they're not doing enough to satisfy you.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Not quite. The complaint is that they are taking anti-action too, enough that their net action might be less than zero.
WalterGR 8y ago
"Maddening" implies discomfort. If people didn't virtue signal, it would eliminate that discomfort. You don't like the discomfort, otherwise you would have written that you find virtue-signaling being maddening an enjoyable experience. If it was neutral, you wouldn't use an emotional word to describe it. Since you don't find the feeling enjoyable or neutral, and because of the meaning of "maddening," that means you don't like it. Therefore, to prevent your discomfort, you support people not virtue-signaling. What action are you taking to demonstrably promote the reduction of virtue-signaling? It seems like much of the calling out of alleged virtue-signaling is virtue-signaling itself.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Virtue signalling in this context is giving the impression of doing something. Saying "We should treat the environment better" while being honest about your own [lack of] contribution is perfectly fine. By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine.
  - WalterGR 8y ago
    By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine. That's not at all how people use it colloquially. Nobody is claiming that bumper stickers, Priuses, statements of "thoughts and prayers," or changing one's Facebook profile picture magically fix any problem. And yet those are the exact things that get labeled virtue-signalling. In this thread alone, jaredhansen mentions "ideally via cheap signals like signs and bumper stickers" - though admittedly doesn't say virtue signals. x220's definition is also at odds with yours. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=virtue-signalling https://hn.algolia.com/?query=virtue-signalling is rife with examples. The incessant cries of virtue-signalling on the web absolutely do not require someone claiming that they've "magically fixed" any problem, and are almost entirely gate-keeping, goalpost-moving, ad hominem attacks, simple partisanship, and general lazy argumentation.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      Okay, I've thought about it a bit more, and I think I figured out how to word things precisely. A bumper sticker signals "I care". A prius, in theory, signals "I am actively helping, a lot". They're both kinds of "virtue signalling", but they're very different in scope. The 'maddening' thing is not when people signal they care a little bit. It's when people signal they care a lot, but their actions contradict that.
- x220 8y ago
  I support not virtue signalling. I would be happier if people said what they meant and didn't virtue signal. I do not virtue signal; I don't care much what people think about my political opinions. I think I'm internally consistent in this regard.

by x220 8y ago

If you say you support something, but don't want to take actions that demonstrably promote what you are supporting, you are virtue signalling. It's quite simple, and it's maddening.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

But they are taking actions. You're trying to complain that they're not doing enough to satisfy you.

Dylan16807 8y ago
Not quite. The complaint is that they are taking anti-action too, enough that their net action might be less than zero.

WalterGR 8y ago

"Maddening" implies discomfort. If people didn't virtue signal, it would eliminate that discomfort. You don't like the discomfort, otherwise you would have written that you find virtue-signaling being maddening an enjoyable experience. If it was neutral, you wouldn't use an emotional word to describe it. Since you don't find the feeling enjoyable or neutral, and because of the meaning of "maddening," that means you don't like it. Therefore, to prevent your discomfort, you support people not virtue-signaling. What action are you taking to demonstrably promote the reduction of virtue-signaling? It seems like much of the calling out of alleged virtue-signaling is virtue-signaling itself.

Dylan16807 8y ago
Virtue signalling in this context is giving the impression of doing something. Saying "We should treat the environment better" while being honest about your own [lack of] contribution is perfectly fine. By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine.
- WalterGR 8y ago
  By the same token, I can complain about a group, and as long as I don't claim that my complaints magically fixed the problem, that's fine. That's not at all how people use it colloquially. Nobody is claiming that bumper stickers, Priuses, statements of "thoughts and prayers," or changing one's Facebook profile picture magically fix any problem. And yet those are the exact things that get labeled virtue-signalling. In this thread alone, jaredhansen mentions "ideally via cheap signals like signs and bumper stickers" - though admittedly doesn't say virtue signals. x220's definition is also at odds with yours. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=virtue-signalling https://hn.algolia.com/?query=virtue-signalling is rife with examples. The incessant cries of virtue-signalling on the web absolutely do not require someone claiming that they've "magically fixed" any problem, and are almost entirely gate-keeping, goalpost-moving, ad hominem attacks, simple partisanship, and general lazy argumentation.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Okay, I've thought about it a bit more, and I think I figured out how to word things precisely. A bumper sticker signals "I care". A prius, in theory, signals "I am actively helping, a lot". They're both kinds of "virtue signalling", but they're very different in scope. The 'maddening' thing is not when people signal they care a little bit. It's when people signal they care a lot, but their actions contradict that.
x220 8y ago
I support not virtue signalling. I would be happier if people said what they meant and didn't virtue signal. I do not virtue signal; I don't care much what people think about my political opinions. I think I'm internally consistent in this regard.