12 ms·

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to re

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates than say, a single hour technical interview or 1 or 2 hour homework? I'd rather do half a dozen video chat interviews spread out over a month than give a whole day just for the possibility of a new job. I'd prefer a single technical interview or homework over that by a mile. If you tell me your interview process is a 25 minute call followed by a whole day of technical interviews, I'll tell you to take a hike.

larrik 8y ago
Agreed, I wouldn't consider doing a full day interview, unless I was looking to relocate and wanted to fit the whole process into a single day. As a regular job offer, it's absurd.
dfabulich 8y ago
A full day interview is standard. You grant that it's standard, right in the first sentence of your post. But you'll tell anyone who offers you a standard interview to take a hike? This is symptomatic of a broader problem with HN comment threads on "how to interview" articles: for any given approach to interviewing, the top comment will be a middle-brow dismissal saying, "I would never interview at a place that interviewed that way." For all X. I would never interview at a place that does whiteboarding. I would never interview at a place that gave me a take-home assignment. I would never interview at a place that asked me to pair-program on a real assignment during the interview (I should get paid for that). I would never interview at a place that asked me to work as contract-to-hire. I would never interview at a place that used HackerRank. I would never interview at a place that looks at Github profiles. I would never interview with a recruiting firm. I would never interview if contacted by a recruiter (instead of the hiring manager). And apparently some people would refuse to interview at a place that asked you to talk to half a dozen of your potential teammates before offering you the job. There's just no good approach.
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  They're asking why it's the standard and how we could change it.
  - avip 8y ago
    It's the standard because it's a big world and some candidates travel long for an interview. So you squash the process into a day. That makes sense.
    - mathgeek 8y ago
      Could you elaborate on why it makes sense to have these candidates travel long distances for a full day interview, rather than have them travel nowhere for a shorter interview via video chat?
      - tropo 8y ago
        You can verify their ID. You can show them around the office. You won't discriminate against dial-up modem users. You get the candidate to show that they are serious (flights, hotel, etc.) and you show them that you are serious by paying for it.
        humanrebar 8y ago
        Video conference software always stinks for whatever reason.
        Apocryphon 8y ago
        You could always conduct half of those interviews by video and do the rest on-site.
- wolco 8y ago
  It's simple, do a quick interview and hire. Use experience, some technical questions or white boarding. That's how it was done previous to this decade.
opportune 8y ago
Nothing wrong with spending all day interviewing if you think you have a strong chance of the interview resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in raise/bonus/etc. Yeah, an actual full day of interviewing is probably more than necessary, but you need to have a strong signal of your ability. I think most technical recruiting at good companies is more about avoiding the possibility of hiring someone who is bad than trying to find the best candidate ever. The business doesn’t want to spend $50k+ on recruiting+paying someone who sucks. So spending a full day on interviewing, especially if you are offering competitive compensation, just makes sense
- wolco 8y ago
  It's foolish because the process elimates the best candidates.
  - opportune 8y ago
    Yeah if you created a hugely popular and successful framework, or are a technical fellow at Google, you don’t even need an interview. But for slightly lower bars of “best” I think you would be surprised just at how bad many people even with decent credentials can be. I just can’t envision a scenario where a company is one I’m interested in working in (good pay, good work, good culture) and where I’m not willing to try to work there due to a one day interview, no matter how good I am. I’m by no means “the best” but I would only go through the process of changing employers/possibly even moving if tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars were at stake, and a day is not much time to spend for that.
- throwaway8610 8y ago
  Let's assume I have to spend a day doing "something" at your company to prove I'm worthy of an offer of employment. What if instead of 6 randomly generated interviews left up to the whims of the interviewer it was 6 interviews working an a different aspect of a simple application? Time spent is the same but I think the latter would produce a much stronger signal.
monksy 8y ago
If you're a serious engineer that is demonstrating consideration: 1-2hr homework doesn't exist. Attention to detail, considering corner cases, test cases, documentation, and polishing takes time. I do agree with you the whole "let's stress him out till he fails one of the tests and then fail him" gauntlet is just annoying.
- hinkley 8y ago
  It's an interrogation, plain and simple. There's a contingent of very detail oriented people who believe they are introverts because they tire easily at this kind of persistent over-stimulation. These people will wash out of the process before the culture fit interview in the afternoon. All you've done is increased your odds of getting a bunch of coding cowboys. The fact is that nobody in a real business situation should be put into this sort of pressure cooker situation on a regular basis. That you're selecting for this indicates a pretty gross failure of management to manage. And until people push back the problem won't get solved. Hiring more people that think that's okay? One way to look at it is that it's a public service you're doing for the rest of the industry by keeping people like that out of our hair. Except people do what they know and any junior folk will just think this is normal and okay. It's not okay and I wouldn't even say it's normal. A pressure cooker interview tells me this place is high drama and they're looking for people with a high tolerance for bullshit. I want to get shit done and do it well (not perfect - well), and that's probably not happening at a place like this.
wayne_skylar 8y ago
Yep. I got recruited for a job I was qualified for yet didn't really want with a very high paying salary. I decided to go through the process to see if there might be something that made me change my mind. They requested a full-day interview. I asked if it could be broken up into two days and they declined. So I informed them that I didn't think I would be a good fit. There's so much bullshit that Facebook / Google et. al are responsible for in this area. All of the wannabe startups basically copied their recruiting tactics with zero understanding for why good people were drawn to them in the first place.
- avip 8y ago
  The word "recruited" implies you got an offer and signed it - not that someone poked you on linkedin.
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    I can't speak for anyone else, but my working definition of "recruited" isn't as specific as yours. The GP's usage was reasonable to me.
slivym 8y ago
Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.
- wolco 8y ago
  Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.
  - jonny_eh 8y ago
    I consider myself a strong engineer and I've only ever done full day interviews, at least for companies bigger than 30 people. What am I doing wrong?
    - wolco 8y ago
      But they don't that's why they want reassurance full day interviews. First step stop applying and let them come to you directly or get recommended. Do you consider yourself the Brad Pit of enginners or joe blow? Do you think Brad Pitt goes into the cattle call auditions and waits all day for his 5 minute read?
      - jonny_eh 8y ago
        I'm not a Brad Pitt, are you? Is there even such a thing in engineering?
        wolco 8y ago
        There are tons of engineering rockstars (brad pitt types). Pick your favourite framework there are usually a handful of stars around it. Am I Brad Pitt? I'm not in that league. But you don't have to be to avoid the unpaid nonsense of hanging around all day. If that's the hiring process it shows that the company is unsure of themselves and are afraid to make a mistake. Companies like google are so big they need this kind of process to filter people out. When a 30 person company does this it raises red flags.
jiveturkey 8y ago
Wow, well the feeling is mutual, I wouldn't want to hire you! :) A day is nothing for someone looking to leave a current position. Take a day off of work, what's the problem? Seriously. You're leaving anyway. And then it's not like you can't just walk out on the interview at any time (say after the 2nd silly whiteboarding session) if you feel they are wasting your time. The most important part of interviewing is the candidate's evaluation of the company. More time spent, and more people to talk to, is a fine tradeoff for a day of your time. As a candidate, I don't really care what the company thinks they are getting out of a full day interview. I want this for my own reasons.
- wycy 8y ago
  Because it's not necessarily one day off work, it's one day off work for every potential job.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    But that's only a downside for people who might fail your interview and/or be looking for alternative employment. Why would you care about inconveniencing some disloyal guy who you don't want to hire? ;)
    - redisman 8y ago
      Really? Interviewing for a job is being "disloyal"?
    - torgian 8y ago
      Pfft. Loyalty is overrated. The company will fire you without a care in the world even if you are the most loyal person out there
- jtreminio 8y ago
  Most developers won't just apply and interview at a single job. I usually interview with 3 or 4 companies when job hunting, and I would hate to have to spend a day at each.
TuringNYC 8y ago
Keep in mind you are interviewing the potential employer, boss, supervisor, and potential fellow employees as much as they are interviewing you. I welcome any chance to meet (and evaluate) everyone I can on the other side -- are these people who are pleasant, smart, ambitious, have potential, I can help, can help me, etc.
40acres 8y ago
I like a full day interview because it allows me to get a good look at the office, the environment of people around it, and meet 4-5 prospective coworkers and get a fuller assessment. However, the day is truly grueling. I interviewed @ Google Cambridge a few years ago (spoiler: did not get the job) and was exhausted by the end of the day I could barely think. My throat was parched from basically performing some sort of stream of consciousness dialogue so that my interviewers were able to assess my problem solving technique and going through corner cases. It's a marathon for sure..
kentosi 8y ago
I'm pretty sure it's an American thing. Where I'm from it's been a short 1 to 2 hour interviews spread across a week or two. Similar to what you're used to I'm sure. The downside of the American model is that it's fatiguing having to audition for an entire day. On the plus side, once the day's up you usually know there and then whether you've got the job or not.
hinkley 8y ago
It selects for people who are comfortable attending an all day meeting. As a potential interviewee, the specter of ever working at a place that tolerates all day meetings again sends chills up my spine.

larrik 8y ago

Agreed, I wouldn't consider doing a full day interview, unless I was looking to relocate and wanted to fit the whole process into a single day. As a regular job offer, it's absurd.

dfabulich 8y ago

A full day interview is standard. You grant that it's standard, right in the first sentence of your post. But you'll tell anyone who offers you a standard interview to take a hike? This is symptomatic of a broader problem with HN comment threads on "how to interview" articles: for any given approach to interviewing, the top comment will be a middle-brow dismissal saying, "I would never interview at a place that interviewed that way." For all X. I would never interview at a place that does whiteboarding. I would never interview at a place that gave me a take-home assignment. I would never interview at a place that asked me to pair-program on a real assignment during the interview (I should get paid for that). I would never interview at a place that asked me to work as contract-to-hire. I would never interview at a place that used HackerRank. I would never interview at a place that looks at Github profiles. I would never interview with a recruiting firm. I would never interview if contacted by a recruiter (instead of the hiring manager). And apparently some people would refuse to interview at a place that asked you to talk to half a dozen of your potential teammates before offering you the job. There's just no good approach.

Apocryphon 8y ago
They're asking why it's the standard and how we could change it.
- avip 8y ago
  It's the standard because it's a big world and some candidates travel long for an interview. So you squash the process into a day. That makes sense.
  - mathgeek 8y ago
    Could you elaborate on why it makes sense to have these candidates travel long distances for a full day interview, rather than have them travel nowhere for a shorter interview via video chat?
    - tropo 8y ago
      You can verify their ID. You can show them around the office. You won't discriminate against dial-up modem users. You get the candidate to show that they are serious (flights, hotel, etc.) and you show them that you are serious by paying for it.
      - humanrebar 8y ago
        Video conference software always stinks for whatever reason.
        Apocryphon 8y ago
        You could always conduct half of those interviews by video and do the rest on-site.
wolco 8y ago
It's simple, do a quick interview and hire. Use experience, some technical questions or white boarding. That's how it was done previous to this decade.

opportune 8y ago

Nothing wrong with spending all day interviewing if you think you have a strong chance of the interview resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in raise/bonus/etc. Yeah, an actual full day of interviewing is probably more than necessary, but you need to have a strong signal of your ability. I think most technical recruiting at good companies is more about avoiding the possibility of hiring someone who is bad than trying to find the best candidate ever. The business doesn’t want to spend $50k+ on recruiting+paying someone who sucks. So spending a full day on interviewing, especially if you are offering competitive compensation, just makes sense

wolco 8y ago
It's foolish because the process elimates the best candidates.
- opportune 8y ago
  Yeah if you created a hugely popular and successful framework, or are a technical fellow at Google, you don’t even need an interview. But for slightly lower bars of “best” I think you would be surprised just at how bad many people even with decent credentials can be. I just can’t envision a scenario where a company is one I’m interested in working in (good pay, good work, good culture) and where I’m not willing to try to work there due to a one day interview, no matter how good I am. I’m by no means “the best” but I would only go through the process of changing employers/possibly even moving if tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars were at stake, and a day is not much time to spend for that.
throwaway8610 8y ago
Let's assume I have to spend a day doing "something" at your company to prove I'm worthy of an offer of employment. What if instead of 6 randomly generated interviews left up to the whims of the interviewer it was 6 interviews working an a different aspect of a simple application? Time spent is the same but I think the latter would produce a much stronger signal.

monksy 8y ago

If you're a serious engineer that is demonstrating consideration: 1-2hr homework doesn't exist. Attention to detail, considering corner cases, test cases, documentation, and polishing takes time. I do agree with you the whole "let's stress him out till he fails one of the tests and then fail him" gauntlet is just annoying.

hinkley 8y ago
It's an interrogation, plain and simple. There's a contingent of very detail oriented people who believe they are introverts because they tire easily at this kind of persistent over-stimulation. These people will wash out of the process before the culture fit interview in the afternoon. All you've done is increased your odds of getting a bunch of coding cowboys. The fact is that nobody in a real business situation should be put into this sort of pressure cooker situation on a regular basis. That you're selecting for this indicates a pretty gross failure of management to manage. And until people push back the problem won't get solved. Hiring more people that think that's okay? One way to look at it is that it's a public service you're doing for the rest of the industry by keeping people like that out of our hair. Except people do what they know and any junior folk will just think this is normal and okay. It's not okay and I wouldn't even say it's normal. A pressure cooker interview tells me this place is high drama and they're looking for people with a high tolerance for bullshit. I want to get shit done and do it well (not perfect - well), and that's probably not happening at a place like this.

wayne_skylar 8y ago

Yep. I got recruited for a job I was qualified for yet didn't really want with a very high paying salary. I decided to go through the process to see if there might be something that made me change my mind. They requested a full-day interview. I asked if it could be broken up into two days and they declined. So I informed them that I didn't think I would be a good fit. There's so much bullshit that Facebook / Google et. al are responsible for in this area. All of the wannabe startups basically copied their recruiting tactics with zero understanding for why good people were drawn to them in the first place.

avip 8y ago
The word "recruited" implies you got an offer and signed it - not that someone poked you on linkedin.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  I can't speak for anyone else, but my working definition of "recruited" isn't as specific as yours. The GP's usage was reasonable to me.

slivym 8y ago

Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.

wolco 8y ago
Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  I consider myself a strong engineer and I've only ever done full day interviews, at least for companies bigger than 30 people. What am I doing wrong?
  - wolco 8y ago
    But they don't that's why they want reassurance full day interviews. First step stop applying and let them come to you directly or get recommended. Do you consider yourself the Brad Pit of enginners or joe blow? Do you think Brad Pitt goes into the cattle call auditions and waits all day for his 5 minute read?
    - jonny_eh 8y ago
      I'm not a Brad Pitt, are you? Is there even such a thing in engineering?
      - wolco 8y ago
        There are tons of engineering rockstars (brad pitt types). Pick your favourite framework there are usually a handful of stars around it. Am I Brad Pitt? I'm not in that league. But you don't have to be to avoid the unpaid nonsense of hanging around all day. If that's the hiring process it shows that the company is unsure of themselves and are afraid to make a mistake. Companies like google are so big they need this kind of process to filter people out. When a 30 person company does this it raises red flags.

jiveturkey 8y ago

Wow, well the feeling is mutual, I wouldn't want to hire you! :) A day is nothing for someone looking to leave a current position. Take a day off of work, what's the problem? Seriously. You're leaving anyway. And then it's not like you can't just walk out on the interview at any time (say after the 2nd silly whiteboarding session) if you feel they are wasting your time. The most important part of interviewing is the candidate's evaluation of the company. More time spent, and more people to talk to, is a fine tradeoff for a day of your time. As a candidate, I don't really care what the company thinks they are getting out of a full day interview. I want this for my own reasons.

wycy 8y ago
Because it's not necessarily one day off work, it's one day off work for every potential job.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  But that's only a downside for people who might fail your interview and/or be looking for alternative employment. Why would you care about inconveniencing some disloyal guy who you don't want to hire? ;)
  - redisman 8y ago
    Really? Interviewing for a job is being "disloyal"?
  - torgian 8y ago
    Pfft. Loyalty is overrated. The company will fire you without a care in the world even if you are the most loyal person out there
jtreminio 8y ago
Most developers won't just apply and interview at a single job. I usually interview with 3 or 4 companies when job hunting, and I would hate to have to spend a day at each.

TuringNYC 8y ago

Keep in mind you are interviewing the potential employer, boss, supervisor, and potential fellow employees as much as they are interviewing you. I welcome any chance to meet (and evaluate) everyone I can on the other side -- are these people who are pleasant, smart, ambitious, have potential, I can help, can help me, etc.

40acres 8y ago

I like a full day interview because it allows me to get a good look at the office, the environment of people around it, and meet 4-5 prospective coworkers and get a fuller assessment. However, the day is truly grueling. I interviewed @ Google Cambridge a few years ago (spoiler: did not get the job) and was exhausted by the end of the day I could barely think. My throat was parched from basically performing some sort of stream of consciousness dialogue so that my interviewers were able to assess my problem solving technique and going through corner cases. It's a marathon for sure..

kentosi 8y ago

I'm pretty sure it's an American thing. Where I'm from it's been a short 1 to 2 hour interviews spread across a week or two. Similar to what you're used to I'm sure. The downside of the American model is that it's fatiguing having to audition for an entire day. On the plus side, once the day's up you usually know there and then whether you've got the job or not.

hinkley 8y ago

It selects for people who are comfortable attending an all day meeting. As a potential interviewee, the specter of ever working at a place that tolerates all day meetings again sends chills up my spine.