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Please don't read/send email while driving. Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don't just give that

Please don't read/send email while driving. Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don't just give that time away to your current employer for free - unless your employer is a charity. Edit: Even if you work for a charity, giving away your time for free may not be a good idea. ;)

iambateman 8y ago
As an employee of a charity, I don’t think working off the clock makes sense there either. ;) Charities pay for work just like anyone else. If you like, sure, make a donation. But make sure it’s formal. Otherwise you are robbing someone else of an opportunity to generously support the work AND if the “employee stretching to give” becomes organizational culture it can endanger the entire organization. Burn out is real.
- Declanomous 8y ago
  Most of my experience is with non-profit orgs, but unlike a lot of people in the NPO space I have a fair amount of for-profit experience. I think people who work for NPOs tend to burn out at even higher rates than people in for-profit orgs because they get emotionally invested in the mission, fail to set reasonable boundaries, and because they typically make less than people who work for for-profit orgs and therefore have more money related stress and fewer resources to deal with stress. Working for an NPO can be existentially rewarding, but I hear a lot of myths about how NPOs provide better work life balance, etc, and I don't think that's true at all. I have a theory that a lot of people do things in certain ways in order to keep up appearances. For instance, a lot of startups waste a lot of money on things that are 'business-y' to legitimize themselves as a 'real business'. To that extent, I find that a lot of NPOs waste a lot of resources appearing 'thrifty' (read: cheap). I've worked with a lot of NPOs that waste tons of employee time and money because they don't want to spend money because of the 'optics'. What this means is that getting anything done takes more time and energy at an NPO. My specialty is database marketing, and I've literally done thousands of experiments across millions of mailed letters. I've found that for most donors, anything that can make a letter appear 'cheaper' improves response rate and the average donation. Most people interpret similar data as people preferring more 'personalized' letters, but I think that's because there is a lot of overlap between 'low-budget' and 'human touch'. The irony is that at once place we spent more than three times as much per letter to make them appear cheaper. This mindset also applies to people who work at non-profit orgs. People would spend 3 days doing stuff by hand rather than paying $100 to have it automated. On a similar note, I was stuck with an ancient Pentium 4 for a long time because the IT department bought them used. They were eventually replaced with Core 2 Duos. They were slow as hell, which was bad enough, but if you did the math the lifetime cost was much higher than buying a new computer due in large part to how much power Pentium 4's used. Not to mention it took them forever to upgrade from CRTs, which use so much more electricity than LCDs.
  - PeterStuer 8y ago
    Thx for sharing these insights. The 'cheap look' of the donation request letters feels to me comparable to those bio-produce where they leave/add some soil on the carrots and potatoes, or the IT startups that love an unfinished industrial look to their office as if they are squatting the place. Probably for many in the targeted audience the feel of 'authenticity' is important, even when it is manufactured.
- rhombocombus 8y ago
  Also, just because they are a charity, does not mean that I am, or that I can afford to be. I spend a third of my waking hours working for someone else, which makes the time I spend with my family outside the walls pretty close to non-negotiable, exceptional circumstances notwithstanding.
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    And when you are someone like me who is precariously employed in an expensive area, you suck it up and get it done :)
- naravara 8y ago
  >Charities pay for work just like anyone else. Usually much less than anyone else, though the benefits packages tend to be more generous.
dagw 8y ago
Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career Or leave 45 minutes early and work those 45 minutes on the train.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- loup-vaillant 8y ago
  That one is less socially acceptable, if at all.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - reitanqild 8y ago
    Luckily for me acceptable where I work. Nice deal for everyone: they get access to a larger pool of potential employees. I get to live where I want. And I make sure I only write the hours I actually work while commuting. (Right now I'm reading HN instead.)
- konschubert 8y ago
  That's what I do.
- Bluecobra 8y ago
  This is what I do. Working in IT, I'm basically on call 24/7 (if there is a major issue) anyways. The typical shift here is 9 hours (1 for lunch). I typically take an hour for lunch and I'm at my desk for 7 hours. I "make up" that other hour for all the times I answer work email on the train or fix something after hours at home. It's important to have a good work/life balance.
kodablah 8y ago
Maybe I'm my employer? Maybe I only work a few hours a day at my nice employer and an email here and there in my commute is no biggie? Maybe there's many other reasons why I want to send or read email? Please do what you want with your time. Use your bus/train time for what you want to do, which includes voluntarily giving away that time at whatever cost you want.
caymanjim 8y ago
If you're studying things that will help your career, you're working. Don't study for free either. Many employers will pay you for this time (if hourly) or credit you in other ways. If not, find a better employer. Never work for free. Your employer isn't your friend or your family.
- michaelt 8y ago
  If you only study things your employer will pay you to study, you'll be an expert in things you need for your current job - you want to be an expert in things you need for your next job too. If my current job is programming engine control units, they'll pay me to train in things relevant to that, like MISRA standards - but if I think my next job will involve blockchains, the ECU manufacturer ain't going to pay me to study those.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
I would say using bus/train time to do work work is fine, so long as you count that in your 8 hours. Like, that time isn't used in addition to a full day in the office.
dzhiurgis 8y ago
It’s BBC mate, no one in London is commuting by car and rest of UK is mostly irrelevant.

iambateman 8y ago

As an employee of a charity, I don’t think working off the clock makes sense there either. ;) Charities pay for work just like anyone else. If you like, sure, make a donation. But make sure it’s formal. Otherwise you are robbing someone else of an opportunity to generously support the work AND if the “employee stretching to give” becomes organizational culture it can endanger the entire organization. Burn out is real.

Declanomous 8y ago
Most of my experience is with non-profit orgs, but unlike a lot of people in the NPO space I have a fair amount of for-profit experience. I think people who work for NPOs tend to burn out at even higher rates than people in for-profit orgs because they get emotionally invested in the mission, fail to set reasonable boundaries, and because they typically make less than people who work for for-profit orgs and therefore have more money related stress and fewer resources to deal with stress. Working for an NPO can be existentially rewarding, but I hear a lot of myths about how NPOs provide better work life balance, etc, and I don't think that's true at all. I have a theory that a lot of people do things in certain ways in order to keep up appearances. For instance, a lot of startups waste a lot of money on things that are 'business-y' to legitimize themselves as a 'real business'. To that extent, I find that a lot of NPOs waste a lot of resources appearing 'thrifty' (read: cheap). I've worked with a lot of NPOs that waste tons of employee time and money because they don't want to spend money because of the 'optics'. What this means is that getting anything done takes more time and energy at an NPO. My specialty is database marketing, and I've literally done thousands of experiments across millions of mailed letters. I've found that for most donors, anything that can make a letter appear 'cheaper' improves response rate and the average donation. Most people interpret similar data as people preferring more 'personalized' letters, but I think that's because there is a lot of overlap between 'low-budget' and 'human touch'. The irony is that at once place we spent more than three times as much per letter to make them appear cheaper. This mindset also applies to people who work at non-profit orgs. People would spend 3 days doing stuff by hand rather than paying $100 to have it automated. On a similar note, I was stuck with an ancient Pentium 4 for a long time because the IT department bought them used. They were eventually replaced with Core 2 Duos. They were slow as hell, which was bad enough, but if you did the math the lifetime cost was much higher than buying a new computer due in large part to how much power Pentium 4's used. Not to mention it took them forever to upgrade from CRTs, which use so much more electricity than LCDs.
- PeterStuer 8y ago
  Thx for sharing these insights. The 'cheap look' of the donation request letters feels to me comparable to those bio-produce where they leave/add some soil on the carrots and potatoes, or the IT startups that love an unfinished industrial look to their office as if they are squatting the place. Probably for many in the targeted audience the feel of 'authenticity' is important, even when it is manufactured.
rhombocombus 8y ago
Also, just because they are a charity, does not mean that I am, or that I can afford to be. I spend a third of my waking hours working for someone else, which makes the time I spend with my family outside the walls pretty close to non-negotiable, exceptional circumstances notwithstanding.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  And when you are someone like me who is precariously employed in an expensive area, you suck it up and get it done :)
naravara 8y ago
>Charities pay for work just like anyone else. Usually much less than anyone else, though the benefits packages tend to be more generous.

dagw 8y ago

Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career Or leave 45 minutes early and work those 45 minutes on the train.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
loup-vaillant 8y ago
That one is less socially acceptable, if at all.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- reitanqild 8y ago
  Luckily for me acceptable where I work. Nice deal for everyone: they get access to a larger pool of potential employees. I get to live where I want. And I make sure I only write the hours I actually work while commuting. (Right now I'm reading HN instead.)
konschubert 8y ago
That's what I do.
Bluecobra 8y ago
This is what I do. Working in IT, I'm basically on call 24/7 (if there is a major issue) anyways. The typical shift here is 9 hours (1 for lunch). I typically take an hour for lunch and I'm at my desk for 7 hours. I "make up" that other hour for all the times I answer work email on the train or fix something after hours at home. It's important to have a good work/life balance.

kodablah 8y ago

Maybe I'm my employer? Maybe I only work a few hours a day at my nice employer and an email here and there in my commute is no biggie? Maybe there's many other reasons why I want to send or read email? Please do what you want with your time. Use your bus/train time for what you want to do, which includes voluntarily giving away that time at whatever cost you want.

caymanjim 8y ago

If you're studying things that will help your career, you're working. Don't study for free either. Many employers will pay you for this time (if hourly) or credit you in other ways. If not, find a better employer. Never work for free. Your employer isn't your friend or your family.

michaelt 8y ago
If you only study things your employer will pay you to study, you'll be an expert in things you need for your current job - you want to be an expert in things you need for your next job too. If my current job is programming engine control units, they'll pay me to train in things relevant to that, like MISRA standards - but if I think my next job will involve blockchains, the ECU manufacturer ain't going to pay me to study those.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

I would say using bus/train time to do work work is fine, so long as you count that in your 8 hours. Like, that time isn't used in addition to a full day in the office.

dzhiurgis 8y ago

It’s BBC mate, no one in London is commuting by car and rest of UK is mostly irrelevant.