4 ms·

What is the author even talking about, saying there is no progress in cancer therapy? Hanahan doesn't even mention immunology in the "Hallmarks of Cancer" (that

What is the author even talking about, saying there is no progress in cancer therapy? Hanahan doesn't even mention immunology in the "Hallmarks of Cancer" (that's an influential review article from 2000), and less than ten years later it's a huge field of research, with several very powerful drugs in the clinic.

tmikaeld 8y ago
There's quite a lot of quite shocking results with Immunotherapy Research when it comes to Cancer. Which a lot of holistic doctors have picked up on and some clinics even treat cancer patients in. Like this clinic in Japan: https://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp https://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp who have published several studies and papers on their treatments. But yeah, why is it being ignored?
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  Immunotherapy isn't ignored at all. There are two small-molecule IDO inhibitors in clinical use, I think, some biologics as well, and the efficiency of CAR T-cell therapy is just staggering.
  - tmikaeld 8y ago
    I mean of course, ignored in the article, not in general.
    - HarryHirsch 8y ago
      Well, the article is not deliberative, it's polemics. Polemics has a point, it raises awareness, just compare Stallman's attitude to Linus' practicality (it helps if you turn out to be right), but there's sufficient awareness of the libertarian viewpoint already. So I wish they'd just stop, they are tiresome.
      - CryptoPunk 8y ago
        First of all, the article mentioned immunotherapy. It'd help if people actually read articles before criticizing them. Second, the stakes are extremely high when we choose a particular economic path, so extensive discussion about every facet of economics, including the economic effect of regulatory intervention, is warranted. The population is not widely aware of the consequences of regulatory intervention, or even the fact that the economy is becoming more regulated over time (how often do you hear about the "since Reagan, we've tried neoliberalism" trope). The reason the number of healthcare administrators has increased 3,200 percent since 1970 (compared to an increase of 150 percent in physicians) is the growing number of regulations in healthcare: https://www.athenahealth.com/insight/expert-forum-rise-and-rise-healthcare-administrator https://www.athenahealth.com/insight/expert-forum-rise-and-r... Or take the example given from the article, of the cost of clinical trials increasing 12.2 percent per year (inflation-adjusted) in the 1980s, up from 7.3 percent in the 1970s. These are important enough issues to warrant extensive critical discussion. Libertarians may be wrong (though I don't think they are), but the discussion that has been had around these subjects is not commensurate with the stakes involved, so it's good thing if libertarian polemics attract more attention and discussion to them.
    - melling 8y ago
      “New immunotherapies that enlist white blood cells to attack tumors have shown excellent results. ” “Napster co-founder Sean Parker has donated $250 million for immunotherapy research.” It was mentioned.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    There were a string of shocking titles in the news 'stage 4 remission in N weeks, almost no side effects' last year. I wonder what's up since.
ryanackley 8y ago
He looks at it empirically > Cancer deaths have fallen by a total of just 5 percent since 1950. (In comparison, heart disease deaths are a third of what they were then, thanks to innovations like statins, stents, and bypass surgery.) Not sure if this takes into account x year survival rates.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  That was my first thought. What about early detection and treatment? There's a saying "live long enough and you'll die of cancer".
dekhn 8y ago
... and Hanahan followed it up with https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(11)00127-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(11)00127-9 in 2011 which does cover immunology.

tmikaeld 8y ago

There's quite a lot of quite shocking results with Immunotherapy Research when it comes to Cancer. Which a lot of holistic doctors have picked up on and some clinics even treat cancer patients in. Like this clinic in Japan: https://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp https://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp who have published several studies and papers on their treatments. But yeah, why is it being ignored?

HarryHirsch 8y ago
Immunotherapy isn't ignored at all. There are two small-molecule IDO inhibitors in clinical use, I think, some biologics as well, and the efficiency of CAR T-cell therapy is just staggering.
- tmikaeld 8y ago
  I mean of course, ignored in the article, not in general.
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    Well, the article is not deliberative, it's polemics. Polemics has a point, it raises awareness, just compare Stallman's attitude to Linus' practicality (it helps if you turn out to be right), but there's sufficient awareness of the libertarian viewpoint already. So I wish they'd just stop, they are tiresome.
    - CryptoPunk 8y ago
      First of all, the article mentioned immunotherapy. It'd help if people actually read articles before criticizing them. Second, the stakes are extremely high when we choose a particular economic path, so extensive discussion about every facet of economics, including the economic effect of regulatory intervention, is warranted. The population is not widely aware of the consequences of regulatory intervention, or even the fact that the economy is becoming more regulated over time (how often do you hear about the "since Reagan, we've tried neoliberalism" trope). The reason the number of healthcare administrators has increased 3,200 percent since 1970 (compared to an increase of 150 percent in physicians) is the growing number of regulations in healthcare: https://www.athenahealth.com/insight/expert-forum-rise-and-rise-healthcare-administrator https://www.athenahealth.com/insight/expert-forum-rise-and-r... Or take the example given from the article, of the cost of clinical trials increasing 12.2 percent per year (inflation-adjusted) in the 1980s, up from 7.3 percent in the 1970s. These are important enough issues to warrant extensive critical discussion. Libertarians may be wrong (though I don't think they are), but the discussion that has been had around these subjects is not commensurate with the stakes involved, so it's good thing if libertarian polemics attract more attention and discussion to them.
  - melling 8y ago
    “New immunotherapies that enlist white blood cells to attack tumors have shown excellent results. ” “Napster co-founder Sean Parker has donated $250 million for immunotherapy research.” It was mentioned.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  There were a string of shocking titles in the news 'stage 4 remission in N weeks, almost no side effects' last year. I wonder what's up since.

ryanackley 8y ago

He looks at it empirically > Cancer deaths have fallen by a total of just 5 percent since 1950. (In comparison, heart disease deaths are a third of what they were then, thanks to innovations like statins, stents, and bypass surgery.) Not sure if this takes into account x year survival rates.

cptskippy 8y ago
That was my first thought. What about early detection and treatment? There's a saying "live long enough and you'll die of cancer".

dekhn 8y ago

... and Hanahan followed it up with https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(11)00127-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(11)00127-9 in 2011 which does cover immunology.