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Slow leak detected aboard Space Station
- pbrumm 8y agoI don't think they could fit another video or unrelated image in that article. Are people posting content here just to get the ads traffic?
- _verandaguy 8y agoThis is the official ESA website, they don't generate ad revenue AFAIK, or any revenue from their site directly.
- greglindahl 8y agoThe original url was at independent.co.uk, one of the UK's national newspapers.
- snsr 8y agoApparently a 1.5mm puncture due to a meteor/debris strike in the Russian Soyuz MS-09 module. More information: http://blogs.esa.int/alexander-gerst/2018/08/30/slow-leak-detected-aboard-space-station/ http://blogs.esa.int/alexander-gerst/2018/08/30/slow-leak-de... https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7... http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms-09.html#leak http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms-09.html#leak
- village-idiot 8y agoMakes sense. A manufacturing defect in a Soyuz would be extremely surprising, they have a very well respected safety record.
- sctb 8y agoThanks! We've updated the link from https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/nasa-international-space-station-leak-iss-latest-alarm-soyuz-module-a8514291.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne....
- ambicapter 8y agoDoes that mean there is a little meteor hanging out somewhere in the module?
- theothermkn 8y agoAt the typical velocities for this kind of impact, probably not. At these speeds, computer analyses ignore the solid properties of the colliding objects, modeling them as liquids, instead. (The shear resistances is just not relevant, and everything liquefies from the heat from the impact. Even that heat loss is negligible in terms of the total energy of the collision.) Most likely, there would be fragments of the impactor and the hull, mixed together with each other and oxidized with the station air, floating about. I won't risk speculating about the fragment size, other than to say it would be pretty dang small. (I'm leaning toward "powder," but personally wouldn't rule out either "grit" or whatever "finer than powder" is.)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- acomjean 8y ago>or whatever "finer than powder" silt. if its even smaller its clay.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- BrandonMarc 8y agoSo the astronauts have breathed the meteor into their lungs? Funky ...
- da_chicken 8y agoThey're breathing far more dead skin. So are you, though.
- kevindqc 8y agoHow does it not happen more often?
- Retric 8y agoISS travels at a very low orbit which the earth’s atmosphere does a great job of keeping clean. They occasionally manover around anything large enough to be a significant issue. On to of that space is huge and largely empty even at the speed they are traveling. The ISS is also designed to take a hit and can generally survive similar impacts without issue.
- antonvs 8y agoMicrometeoroid impacts happen fairly regularly, but they're usually not energetic enough to make a hole. For example, there was a instance in 2012 where one hit a window: http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-debris/kessler-syndrome/micrometeroid-hit-iss-cupola/ http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-debris/kessler-synd... But as that incident shows, such impacts are often relatively benign - in that case, they didn't even need to replace the outer layer window. The hull is reinforced with four or five layers of shielding - the above article has a nice diagram: https://i2.wp.com/www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MMOD-typical-shields.jpg https://i2.wp.com/www.spacesafetymagazine.com/wp-content/upl... This means the usual consequence of a micrometeroid impact is pitting of the outer layers that may not even be noticed. For larger objects that present a serious danger, the US Space Surveillance Network attempts to track them and predict "conjunctions" with a zone around the ISS which extends 2km above and below it, and 25 km in each direction on the orbital path. Anything that's expected to intersect with this zone is analyzed and may result in the station being moved to get out of the way. These are mostly due to space junk of human origin. In 2013, there were at least ~70 of these "conjunction notifications", although this results in only about one move of the station per year, on average. There's a description of how these cases are handled at https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/07/how-nasa-steers-the-international-space-station-around-space-junk/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/07/how-nasa-steers-the-... : > "Any object with between a 1-in-10,000 and 1-in-100,000 chance of colliding with the station meets the "yellow" threshold. Flight rules say that the station must be moved out of the way in response to a yellow threshold object unless such a move results in a mission impact—"Like, if we do the burn, we're going to miss an opportunity to launch a Soyuz, for instance," explains Parris. "Do we delay the Soyuz, or do we do the maneuver?" A "red" threshold is assigned to any collision with a likelihood of between 1 (in other words, absolutely certain) and 1-in-10,000. Flight rules are more strict for maneuvers in response to red threshold objects: the station is always moved for a red threshold object, regardless of mission impact, unless a maneuver represents more risk than not maneuvering (for example, if there's a piece of equipment that's damaged on the ISS and a maneuver would exacerbate that damage)." This doesn't help in the case of meteor showers, where the Earth is travelling through a zone full of small debris, typically caused by the trail of a comet. In those cases, the station has to rely on its shielding, but the debris sizes in those cases are almost all within the limits that the shielding can handle.
- Romanulus 8y agoAccording to Russian sources, the problem was found in the Habitation Module of the Soyuz MS-09 spacecraft, where the crew detected two small cracks, reaching 1.5 millimeters in size. Alexander Gerst apparently first discovered the leak.
- Tuna-Fish 8y agoNot only first discovered. The first temporary patch was Gerst's finger.
- moneytide 8y agoI've seen several of these "F-35 is a failure" articles over the past few years, and I have a new theory about it. Making the opposition think you're weak is a strategy. Straight from Sun Tzu. Negative press propaganda is a tool in itself.
- sitkack 8y agoAt 1.5mm dust could block that hole from the inside and _sufficiently large (epoxy) bandaid_ could patch it from the outside. Edit, from twitter link, "... has been sealed temporarily by tape ..."
- cwkoss 8y agoInteresting, I was thinking you could use the pressure differential to flow epoxy into the hole before sealing pressure to stop flow and heating to cure, but makes sense that an epoxy bandaid would probably do just as well - probably good enough to just slap that over the hole. Will they apply to both inside and out? Will epoxy cure properly if totally exposed to the cold low pressure of space?
- AWildC182 8y agoEpoxy can cure in a vacuum, as demonstrated by common fabrication procedures (sort of). The temperature isn't actually that big of a thing. Space is "cold" because there's no heat but also nothing to conduct it away. It actually gets quite hot if you're facing the sun as well. Long story short though, as long as there's no gas passing through the hole, it should stay around the internal temperature of the ISS or at least close enough to cure.
- lpmay 8y agoMaybe even hotter than inside, since the epoxy reaction is exothermic as it cures.
- kentiko 8y ago"the hole is covered using Alexander Gerst's finger for now" - https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/9bi49u/the_iss_is_currently_experiencing_a_slow/e535dlh/ https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/9bi49u/the_iss_is_cu...
- village-idiot 8y agoAny word on when the Dutch are going to offer him honorary citizenship?
- userbinator 8y agoA rough calculation of how much it'd hurt (or not): Atmospheric pressure is 10.1N/cm^2, or 0.1N/mm^2. The hole is 2mm diameter, or ~3mm^2 in area, so the force over that area would be ~0.3N or roughly 30 grams. It's not a lot of force. I'd be more worried about my skin sublimating, however.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI feel like they'll take a little anti-freezer burn over suffocation. If only they had an inanimate carbon rod to block the hole!
- joering2 8y agoHas been fixed by now. IF you have spare monitor going at your office/home, its fun to watch the ISS up to second tracking locations [1]. Fun fact I learned lately about ISS: at 400km above Earth's surface, the gravity is about 80% of a normal Earth gravity. The ISS is constantly falling down but because of Earth rotation it is falling "at the edge" so to speak so it never actually fell on the ground. Hope that make sense, I'm sure you read better explanation on Wiki. [1] http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/International_Space_Station/Where_is_the_International_Space_Station http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/Internat...
- dylan604 8y agoSeriously? "Get the latest Flash player to view this content". Wow, just wow. 2018 is almost 3/4 done, and we still have sites with Flash.
- asdfman123 8y agoI guess they're too busy building boring old space stations.
- dylan604 8y agoThat's why you staff that stuff out.
- benmowa 8y agocool, I hadn't seen that link before. thanks.
- joering2 8y agoYou welcome! And you welcome to upvote me, since no matter what I say, a few of HN moderators will continue to be down-voting my postings. Oh well...
- TaylorAlexander 8y ago
- pcan77 8y agoSounds like they needed an inanimate carbon rod!
- whoopdedo 8y agoThis is a Simpsons reference but it also sounds like a variation of the "the Russians used a pencil" copypasta.
- mar77i 8y agoI've heard that the whole construction up there has been getting leakier over time. I wonder what exactly the threshold is these days to constitute a "slow leak"...
- digi_owl 8y agoEnough to register on sensors, not enough to trigger an immediate evacuation?
- greglindahl 8y agoEven this 1.5mm hole was so small that they didn't bother to wake anyone up, and instead waited until the next workday.
- coldtea 8y ago>I've heard that the whole construction up there has been getting leakier over time. Obviously either that's false or the threshold is pretty damn high, since they have people in there for months on end...
- thibran 8y agoISS Live Stream: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream
- sometime 8y agoHow did they locate the hole?
- swypych 8y ago"The rate of the leak was slowed this morning through the temporary application of Kapton tape at the leak site." In tape we trust! I hope they show close ups!
- pcrh 8y ago>Kapton tape Is that duck tape for spaceships?
- sjburt 8y agoYes.
- _mitch 8y agoDuck tape for applications needing large range of temperature stability and/or good electrical isolation. I saw it used extensively in aerospace electronics for commercial aircraft.
- cjslep 8y agoDuct tape? Or tape for ducks?
- thedirt0115 8y agoTape made out of ducks. They're really sticky.
- Afton 8y agohttps://mentalfloss.com/article/52151/it-duck-tape-or-duct-tape https://mentalfloss.com/article/52151/it-duck-tape-or-duct-t...
- fyfy18 8y agoIf you open up a laptop, it’s the orange film that's often used to hold wires in place, and insulate parts from the casing.
- 8y ago
- ertand 8y agoI wonder what the procedure to locate the leak was.
- rsync 8y agoYou spray soapy water all over the outside of the module and watch for any spots that start bubbling.
- jacquesm 8y agoNah, you spray soapy water all over the inside of the module and watch where it egresses.
- LeoPanthera 8y agoThey use an ultrasonic detector that can hear the sound of gas being forced through a small hole.
- alkonaut 8y agoHow do you find it, once you register that there IS a leak? Will there be a draft towards the hole? Or do they use an outside IR camera?
- schiffern 8y agoBinary search by closing doors and measuring the pressure drop? N-ary search if each module has its own barometer.
- alkonaut 8y agoEven once you identify which module, there are many square meters of outer wall to find a millimeter hole in. And from what I have seen, every square millimeter of wall is more or less covered with stuff. There has to be a method to it.
- tropo 8y agoIt might whistle, perhaps ultrasonically. It might produce a tiny little thrust.
- jhpankow 8y agoIndeed they used an ultrasonic leak detector.
- jldugger 8y agoIf my FTL training is worth a damn, Just look for the rooms turning red the fastest.
- asteli 8y agoI heard a possibly apocryphal story about finding leaks in military transport aircraft -- they'd toss rolls of toilet paper around inside the craft and watch for it drifting toward and sticking to the inside of the fuselage. Apparently there was a particularly bad leak one time that simply ate the entire roll was consumed with a "FWUMP".
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- asteli 8y agoAt 1.5mm, a piece of tape would come closer than you'd think to being a permanent fix... The vacuum of space seems drastically hard to keep at bay, but consider that you're only holding in enough gas to replicate sea-level air pressure (nominally 14 PSI or so). A typical soda can is pressurized to between 30 and 50 PSI depending on temperature, beverage etc. Supposedly the apollo command module had a pressure skin that was as thin as 0.012" (0.3mm) in places.
- userbinator 8y agoI did a bit of searching and found that the ISS, along with Soyuz, are kept at sea-level atmospheric pressure (14.7PSI). This is unlike pressurised aircraft, which usually operate slightly below sea-level pressure at flying altitude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization#Spacecraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization#Spacecraf...
- sam0x17 8y agoThey should have used rust :D
- m1573rp34130dy 8y ago...perhaps a layer of self assembling/repairing nanoskin?... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672652911600280 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S167265291... ...or somthing similar
- m1573rp34130dy 8y agoi guess its a really bad idea :-D
- m1573rp34130dy 8y agoyup bad idea alright but i stick by it... maybe someone has a better or more germane solution than relying on an astronaut to find a leak and patch it up by hand, but the idea of preemptively mitigating leaks sounds better than waiting for a problem then correcting if it can be found...
- jobserunder 8y agoDoes this mean water is rushing into the space (water) craft?
- chrishowlin 8y agoWould the leak be enough to significantly change the trajectory of the station such that it needs correction? Surely the force of the leak is very small compared to the size of the station, but if it had been leaking for a while the change could add up.