6 ms·

Just to toss this question in, because I've seen lots of people make a similar comment, but never have really seen an explanation as to why: what is the proble

by tjr 16y ago

Just to toss this question in, because I've seen lots of people make a similar comment, but never have really seen an explanation as to why: what is the problem with iTunes? For me, I don't do much in the way of using iTunes; I set up a play list, press play, minimize it, and enjoy listening to music while I do other things. Maybe I'm not a music player power user?

watty 16y ago
I dislike iTunes because it's so bloated and memory hungry (unless it changed changed over the years). I use Foobar2k to do the same thing, load up and just play music.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
Some "features" of iTunes: When I import my music folder, iTunes copies all the files to it's own private directories, using the filesystem as an index. Thanks, but my music is already arranged the way I like. iTunes doesn't play flac or ogg. And when I rip a CD, it wants to save it in some proprietary flac-like format (which, as far as I know, does not work on non-macs). I enjoy controlling my music from a phone/tablet/other computer. Shameless plug: http://github.com/stucchio/DJ-Pirate http://github.com/stucchio/DJ-Pirate http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot1.png http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot1.... http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot3.png http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot3.... iTunes + iPod also has some extremely unpleasant anti-features: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1202 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1202 (Note: this may not all still be true, haven't used iTunes since 2007. )
- docgnome 16y ago
  You can turn the copying files "feature" off. Still annoying. I also hate iTunes.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  The Venn diagram of (people who like iTunes, people who like mpd* ) would look like two circles, separated by hundreds of miles of barren tundra. That's like the intersection between plumbers and meerkats. * Self included. Lua mpd library, FWIW: http://github.com/silentbicycle/lua-mpd http://github.com/silentbicycle/lua-mpd
- jonknee 16y ago
  On one hand there's DJ Pirate, on the other there's Apple Remote. I'm not a fan of iTunes, but for me Remote is a big win. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8
- tvon 16y ago
  > When I import my music folder, iTunes copies all the files to it's own private directories, This is optional and IIRC, not on by default. I have to add: > Thanks, but my music is already arranged the way I like. This just baffles me. Why would you ever manually arrange your music? I used to do this when I use Linux because I basically had to if I wanted to browse it in any sane way, but I much prefer having some app do it for me. It just strikes me as one of the many things that my computer can do well, so it should do it. > iTunes doesn't play flac or ogg. And when I rip a CD, it wants to save it in some proprietary flac-like format (which, as far as I know, does not work on non-macs). I have no clue about non-macs (iTunes generally sucks in Windows IMO) so I can't really help, but in OSX if you have the codec installed, it will work. > I enjoy controlling my music from a phone/tablet/other computer. Google around, there are a lot of remotes for iTunes (free one from Apple for iOS, one for android here: http://dacp.jsharkey.org/ http://dacp.jsharkey.org/). iTunes is one of the main things that I'd miss if I switched to Linux full-time.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    This just baffles me. Why would you ever manually arrange your music? I used to do this when I use Linux because I basically had to if I wanted to browse it in any sane way, but I much prefer having some app do it for me. It just strikes me as one of the many things that my computer can do well, so it should do it. It is more or less automatically arranged (by grip). I make the occasional tweak when grip screws up. As far as browsing goes, mpd supports all of that based on file metadata. Having a filesystem arrangement under my control is useful for this purpose: $ cp /misc/music/Johnny_Cash/American*/* /media/generic_non_ipod_music_player/ Since I have more music than normally fits on a portable player, this step is unavoidable (I can't just copy everything over). (Actually there is another step involved since I store music as lossless flac files, which most portables don't play. See http://github.com/stucchio/Mp3FS http://github.com/stucchio/Mp3FS for details.)
    - djacobs 16y ago
      > Having a filesystem arrangement under my control is useful for this purpose: > $ cp /misc/music/Johnny_Cash/American/ /media/generic_non_ipod_music_player/ Why can't you do this with iTunes' automatic arrangement? What am I missing? I've found that iTunes organizes music in a very reasonable way > 90% of the time. Added benefit: When I add title/album/artist metadata (say it was missing or incorrect when I imported it into iTunes), the hierarchy and filenames automatically rearrange and rename themselves, no intervention on my part required.
- dzlobin 16y ago
  I'll say that it's not perfect, but there have been pretty big improvements since 2007. Just turn off the option to copy files into a new iTunes location(I think it prompts for this upon first load) and it's a pretty solid player. The lack of FLAC is indeed a pain in the ass though.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  You forgot the part where it takes two hours to properly import 30GB of music on a fresh install of the OS. And then it forgets the index if you use a non standard location. And then it forgets it again. And then you delete iTunes and use Doubletwist. Then you find out it sucks too and you wish for rhythmbox or amarok.
  - wtallis 16y ago
    Do you really think that poor support for non-standard music library locations is a legitimate complaint? What's so horribly wrong with ~/Music/iTunes as the location for your iTunes music library?
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      I had a macbook with an 80gb HD, and a music collection that was about 400gb. I suppose I could have configured ~/Music/iTunes as an NFS mountpoint. But why bother with this when iTunes won't play my ogg or flac files?
      - wtallis 16y ago
        iTunes already has a solution for this: shared libraries. It's much, much easier to configure than NFS, and it's fully supported. Why do you demand the ability to reinvent the wheel? (Also, iTunes will play ogg files if you install the Xiph codecs for QuickTime. This has been the case since at least 2006, and you've stated that you last used iTunes in 2007, so I suspect you're not even trying to be fair in your criticism of iTunes, which is a shame given that there are plenty of real problems with it.)
        yummyfajitas 16y ago
        As far as I'm aware, shared libraries only allows me to share with another iTunes library. My fileserver is not a mac. In principle, I could have screwed around with some linux server that attempts to convince iTunes it is a real mac. Or, somewhere in the preferences, I could have told iTunes not to copy to the local folder, and just run it off NFS. In principle, I could have hacked my way around most of iTunes shortcomings. I freely admit that I didn't try very hard to do so since I saw little advantage in it.
spiffworks 16y ago
Well, for one thing its format support is conservative. Like most people who haven't lived in the Mac ecosystem their whole computing lives, I have my music collection in a variety of formats- mp3, ogg, flac, etc. I would like very much to have a media player which didn't ask me to bend to its will. This of course is not an issue for most people, but its a sore sticking point for people who try to switch from Linux. In Linux, if you find a file in an obscure format, you can always find a gstreamer plugin for it and totem(or anything else) will play it without losing a step. I myself tried to switch, but gave up after about a week. One of the main reasons was the iMac's boot time. After having used Fedora and Ubuntu, I found it unbearably slow. Was my experience just an anomaly or is this the general case?
- eru 16y ago
  To me the Macbook's boot time feels the same as my Ubuntu (or even Windows) machines' boot times. But I never compared them on equal hardware, or even did any proper timings.
matwood 16y ago
I'm not an iTunes hater since I use it all the time, but it does have it's issues. The primary issue is that it is SLOW. I have an i7 MBP that everything flies on except iTunes. Now, to be fair iTunes seems to work fine when just playing music. I have a decent library (30GBs +) that it handles okay. The problems arise when doing anything else with iTunes like podcasts, movies, updating apps, or anything having to do with ITMS. Apple has made iTunes the centerpiece of their entire ecosystem. One would think that they would have at least tried to optimize it while throwing everything and the kitchen sink in featurewise.

by tjr 16y ago

watty 16y ago

I dislike iTunes because it's so bloated and memory hungry (unless it changed changed over the years). I use Foobar2k to do the same thing, load up and just play music.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

Some "features" of iTunes: When I import my music folder, iTunes copies all the files to it's own private directories, using the filesystem as an index. Thanks, but my music is already arranged the way I like. iTunes doesn't play flac or ogg. And when I rip a CD, it wants to save it in some proprietary flac-like format (which, as far as I know, does not work on non-macs). I enjoy controlling my music from a phone/tablet/other computer. Shameless plug: http://github.com/stucchio/DJ-Pirate http://github.com/stucchio/DJ-Pirate http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot1.png http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot1.... http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot3.png http://cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/djpirate/screenshot3.... iTunes + iPod also has some extremely unpleasant anti-features: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1202 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1202 (Note: this may not all still be true, haven't used iTunes since 2007. )

docgnome 16y ago
You can turn the copying files "feature" off. Still annoying. I also hate iTunes.
silentbicycle 16y ago
The Venn diagram of (people who like iTunes, people who like mpd* ) would look like two circles, separated by hundreds of miles of barren tundra. That's like the intersection between plumbers and meerkats. * Self included. Lua mpd library, FWIW: http://github.com/silentbicycle/lua-mpd http://github.com/silentbicycle/lua-mpd
jonknee 16y ago
On one hand there's DJ Pirate, on the other there's Apple Remote. I'm not a fan of iTunes, but for me Remote is a big win. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8
tvon 16y ago
> When I import my music folder, iTunes copies all the files to it's own private directories, This is optional and IIRC, not on by default. I have to add: > Thanks, but my music is already arranged the way I like. This just baffles me. Why would you ever manually arrange your music? I used to do this when I use Linux because I basically had to if I wanted to browse it in any sane way, but I much prefer having some app do it for me. It just strikes me as one of the many things that my computer can do well, so it should do it. > iTunes doesn't play flac or ogg. And when I rip a CD, it wants to save it in some proprietary flac-like format (which, as far as I know, does not work on non-macs). I have no clue about non-macs (iTunes generally sucks in Windows IMO) so I can't really help, but in OSX if you have the codec installed, it will work. > I enjoy controlling my music from a phone/tablet/other computer. Google around, there are a lot of remotes for iTunes (free one from Apple for iOS, one for android here: http://dacp.jsharkey.org/ http://dacp.jsharkey.org/). iTunes is one of the main things that I'd miss if I switched to Linux full-time.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  This just baffles me. Why would you ever manually arrange your music? I used to do this when I use Linux because I basically had to if I wanted to browse it in any sane way, but I much prefer having some app do it for me. It just strikes me as one of the many things that my computer can do well, so it should do it. It is more or less automatically arranged (by grip). I make the occasional tweak when grip screws up. As far as browsing goes, mpd supports all of that based on file metadata. Having a filesystem arrangement under my control is useful for this purpose: $ cp /misc/music/Johnny_Cash/American*/* /media/generic_non_ipod_music_player/ Since I have more music than normally fits on a portable player, this step is unavoidable (I can't just copy everything over). (Actually there is another step involved since I store music as lossless flac files, which most portables don't play. See http://github.com/stucchio/Mp3FS http://github.com/stucchio/Mp3FS for details.)
  - djacobs 16y ago
    > Having a filesystem arrangement under my control is useful for this purpose: > $ cp /misc/music/Johnny_Cash/American/ /media/generic_non_ipod_music_player/ Why can't you do this with iTunes' automatic arrangement? What am I missing? I've found that iTunes organizes music in a very reasonable way > 90% of the time. Added benefit: When I add title/album/artist metadata (say it was missing or incorrect when I imported it into iTunes), the hierarchy and filenames automatically rearrange and rename themselves, no intervention on my part required.
dzlobin 16y ago
I'll say that it's not perfect, but there have been pretty big improvements since 2007. Just turn off the option to copy files into a new iTunes location(I think it prompts for this upon first load) and it's a pretty solid player. The lack of FLAC is indeed a pain in the ass though.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
drivebyacct2 16y ago
You forgot the part where it takes two hours to properly import 30GB of music on a fresh install of the OS. And then it forgets the index if you use a non standard location. And then it forgets it again. And then you delete iTunes and use Doubletwist. Then you find out it sucks too and you wish for rhythmbox or amarok.
- wtallis 16y ago
  Do you really think that poor support for non-standard music library locations is a legitimate complaint? What's so horribly wrong with ~/Music/iTunes as the location for your iTunes music library?
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    I had a macbook with an 80gb HD, and a music collection that was about 400gb. I suppose I could have configured ~/Music/iTunes as an NFS mountpoint. But why bother with this when iTunes won't play my ogg or flac files?
    - wtallis 16y ago
      iTunes already has a solution for this: shared libraries. It's much, much easier to configure than NFS, and it's fully supported. Why do you demand the ability to reinvent the wheel? (Also, iTunes will play ogg files if you install the Xiph codecs for QuickTime. This has been the case since at least 2006, and you've stated that you last used iTunes in 2007, so I suspect you're not even trying to be fair in your criticism of iTunes, which is a shame given that there are plenty of real problems with it.)
      - yummyfajitas 16y ago
        As far as I'm aware, shared libraries only allows me to share with another iTunes library. My fileserver is not a mac. In principle, I could have screwed around with some linux server that attempts to convince iTunes it is a real mac. Or, somewhere in the preferences, I could have told iTunes not to copy to the local folder, and just run it off NFS. In principle, I could have hacked my way around most of iTunes shortcomings. I freely admit that I didn't try very hard to do so since I saw little advantage in it.

spiffworks 16y ago

Well, for one thing its format support is conservative. Like most people who haven't lived in the Mac ecosystem their whole computing lives, I have my music collection in a variety of formats- mp3, ogg, flac, etc. I would like very much to have a media player which didn't ask me to bend to its will. This of course is not an issue for most people, but its a sore sticking point for people who try to switch from Linux. In Linux, if you find a file in an obscure format, you can always find a gstreamer plugin for it and totem(or anything else) will play it without losing a step. I myself tried to switch, but gave up after about a week. One of the main reasons was the iMac's boot time. After having used Fedora and Ubuntu, I found it unbearably slow. Was my experience just an anomaly or is this the general case?

eru 16y ago
To me the Macbook's boot time feels the same as my Ubuntu (or even Windows) machines' boot times. But I never compared them on equal hardware, or even did any proper timings.

matwood 16y ago

I'm not an iTunes hater since I use it all the time, but it does have it's issues. The primary issue is that it is SLOW. I have an i7 MBP that everything flies on except iTunes. Now, to be fair iTunes seems to work fine when just playing music. I have a decent library (30GBs +) that it handles okay. The problems arise when doing anything else with iTunes like podcasts, movies, updating apps, or anything having to do with ITMS. Apple has made iTunes the centerpiece of their entire ecosystem. One would think that they would have at least tried to optimize it while throwing everything and the kitchen sink in featurewise.