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How does this have anything to do with Communism? The Chinese Communist Party has the word "Communist" in its name, but it has nothing to do with Communism.

c2k18 8y ago
Exactly they use ideas that may have a base in communism but if you‘ve ever taken the effort in reading what real communism means you‘d know China is no communist state. It is a mix of several political ideas and capitalism is also a big part of it - it’s the part that leads other nations to produce goods at the cheapest rate there so they can say they’ve done everything they could to save the workers human rights. The truth is that companies like Apple etc very well know that people there are treated like slaves - but profit is more important than human lives...
oh_sigh 8y ago
Communists historically seem to be big on re-education camps. The first ones that spring to mind are in the USSR, post-war Vietnam, and these ones currently in China. Have there been many re-education camps in capitalist societies?
- pizza 8y ago
  They're called prisons over here (the US), and we have privatized some of them to generate profit, too. We have the largest incarcerated population in the world -- not even by per capita. Additionally, the 13th amendment makes slavery legal for the incarcerated, and many states take away the right for the incarcerated/felons/ex-felons to vote. There is actually a huge nation-wide prison strike currently going on (of course, not even mentioned in popular news) right now that you might find interesting -- check out their list of demands. California only just recently abolished the ability to buy yourself out of jail - cash bail.
  - dmix 8y ago
    Are you saying US prisons are "re-education" camps or are you just taking the opportunity to bring up some popular social issues in a weakly relevant "what-about-ism".
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - denerio-a 8y ago
      His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you.
      - 394549 8y ago
        > His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you. His point is definitely arguable and not at all obvious or clear: it rests on conflating prisons with political re-education camps. The two things obviously have similarities, but they also have important differences.
        donbright 8y ago
        how important are the differences really? whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? does it really matter what kind of grandiose intellectual contortions your captors use to justify their behavior towards you? if you are being raped or beaten or worked until you bleed do you really care what language they are using to scream at you while they do it? does your family, who doesnt know where you are, and wont see you for years, care what flag is flown over the walls that enclose you?
        ardy42 8y ago
        > how important are the differences really? The differences are very important. In one, the prisoners are ideally a threat to the members of their society in some way: rapists, con artists, thieves. In the other, the prisoners are only a threat to or a scapegoat for the already-powerful rulers: intellectuals, dissidents, minorities. > whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? Yes it does, because they're not "injust, ridiculous, hypocritical" to anywhere near the same degree.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    If US prisons are equivalent to Chinese re-education camps, what is the equivalent of Chinese prisons in the US?
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  Which historical communists? You are replying to someone who points out the difference between an ideologue and a self-proclaimed ideologue, by referring to ... a list of self-proclaimed communist governments.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    You're right - there have never been any communist re-education camps, because True Communism has never existed.
    - ldiracdelta 8y ago
      No true Scotsman.
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      true "communism" as a demand or requirement or ideology has existed for a long time, but I agree it has never been attained. Every concept or value that is in substantial demand will be abused to justify the most horrible things for power and profit. This is true for desirable traits or ideologies of systems such as: freedom, egalitarianism, democracy, anarchism ... From the perspective of crook/opressor/... take your plan, and slap on it whatever concept is in vogue at the timme and place you find yourself... When did I change the definition of "communism" in an "ad hoc" sense? The "No True Scotsman" trope requires the person commiting the fallacy to change or revert his definition in some ad hoc sense...

c2k18 8y ago

Exactly they use ideas that may have a base in communism but if you‘ve ever taken the effort in reading what real communism means you‘d know China is no communist state. It is a mix of several political ideas and capitalism is also a big part of it - it’s the part that leads other nations to produce goods at the cheapest rate there so they can say they’ve done everything they could to save the workers human rights. The truth is that companies like Apple etc very well know that people there are treated like slaves - but profit is more important than human lives...

oh_sigh 8y ago

Communists historically seem to be big on re-education camps. The first ones that spring to mind are in the USSR, post-war Vietnam, and these ones currently in China. Have there been many re-education camps in capitalist societies?

pizza 8y ago
They're called prisons over here (the US), and we have privatized some of them to generate profit, too. We have the largest incarcerated population in the world -- not even by per capita. Additionally, the 13th amendment makes slavery legal for the incarcerated, and many states take away the right for the incarcerated/felons/ex-felons to vote. There is actually a huge nation-wide prison strike currently going on (of course, not even mentioned in popular news) right now that you might find interesting -- check out their list of demands. California only just recently abolished the ability to buy yourself out of jail - cash bail.
- dmix 8y ago
  Are you saying US prisons are "re-education" camps or are you just taking the opportunity to bring up some popular social issues in a weakly relevant "what-about-ism".
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - denerio-a 8y ago
    His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you.
    - 394549 8y ago
      > His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you. His point is definitely arguable and not at all obvious or clear: it rests on conflating prisons with political re-education camps. The two things obviously have similarities, but they also have important differences.
      - donbright 8y ago
        how important are the differences really? whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? does it really matter what kind of grandiose intellectual contortions your captors use to justify their behavior towards you? if you are being raped or beaten or worked until you bleed do you really care what language they are using to scream at you while they do it? does your family, who doesnt know where you are, and wont see you for years, care what flag is flown over the walls that enclose you?
        ardy42 8y ago
        > how important are the differences really? The differences are very important. In one, the prisoners are ideally a threat to the members of their society in some way: rapists, con artists, thieves. In the other, the prisoners are only a threat to or a scapegoat for the already-powerful rulers: intellectuals, dissidents, minorities. > whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? Yes it does, because they're not "injust, ridiculous, hypocritical" to anywhere near the same degree.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  If US prisons are equivalent to Chinese re-education camps, what is the equivalent of Chinese prisons in the US?
DoctorOetker 8y ago
Which historical communists? You are replying to someone who points out the difference between an ideologue and a self-proclaimed ideologue, by referring to ... a list of self-proclaimed communist governments.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  You're right - there have never been any communist re-education camps, because True Communism has never existed.
  - ldiracdelta 8y ago
    No true Scotsman.
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    true "communism" as a demand or requirement or ideology has existed for a long time, but I agree it has never been attained. Every concept or value that is in substantial demand will be abused to justify the most horrible things for power and profit. This is true for desirable traits or ideologies of systems such as: freedom, egalitarianism, democracy, anarchism ... From the perspective of crook/opressor/... take your plan, and slap on it whatever concept is in vogue at the timme and place you find yourself... When did I change the definition of "communism" in an "ad hoc" sense? The "No True Scotsman" trope requires the person commiting the fallacy to change or revert his definition in some ad hoc sense...