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No, it's not. It's Communism. Granted, the difference isn't much in terms of human rights. I don't have the reference handy, but I remember reading about a p

No, it's not. It's Communism. Granted, the difference isn't much in terms of human rights. I don't have the reference handy, but I remember reading about a priest who had the dubious distinction of having survived both a Nazi concentration camp as well as a Communist concentration camp. In his opinion, the Communist camp was worse. In addition to the hard labor, other physical hardships, and the ever-present threat of death, the Communists added brainwashing. “At least the Germans didn't try turning you into a Nazi.” Don't forget. Cuba and Vietnam have the same system in operation. Ask anyone in the exile communities in the United States.

msla 8y ago
The fact this is downvoted is proof of the historical illiteracy of Hacker News readers.
educationdata 8y ago
How does this have anything to do with Communism? The Chinese Communist Party has the word "Communist" in its name, but it has nothing to do with Communism.
- c2k18 8y ago
  Exactly they use ideas that may have a base in communism but if you‘ve ever taken the effort in reading what real communism means you‘d know China is no communist state. It is a mix of several political ideas and capitalism is also a big part of it - it’s the part that leads other nations to produce goods at the cheapest rate there so they can say they’ve done everything they could to save the workers human rights. The truth is that companies like Apple etc very well know that people there are treated like slaves - but profit is more important than human lives...
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Communists historically seem to be big on re-education camps. The first ones that spring to mind are in the USSR, post-war Vietnam, and these ones currently in China. Have there been many re-education camps in capitalist societies?
  - pizza 8y ago
    They're called prisons over here (the US), and we have privatized some of them to generate profit, too. We have the largest incarcerated population in the world -- not even by per capita. Additionally, the 13th amendment makes slavery legal for the incarcerated, and many states take away the right for the incarcerated/felons/ex-felons to vote. There is actually a huge nation-wide prison strike currently going on (of course, not even mentioned in popular news) right now that you might find interesting -- check out their list of demands. California only just recently abolished the ability to buy yourself out of jail - cash bail.
    - dmix 8y ago
      Are you saying US prisons are "re-education" camps or are you just taking the opportunity to bring up some popular social issues in a weakly relevant "what-about-ism".
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - denerio-a 8y ago
        His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you.
        394549 8y ago
        > His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you. His point is definitely arguable and not at all obvious or clear: it rests on conflating prisons with political re-education camps. The two things obviously have similarities, but they also have important differences.
        donbright 8y ago
        how important are the differences really? whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? does it really matter what kind of grandiose intellectual contortions your captors use to justify their behavior towards you? if you are being raped or beaten or worked until you bleed do you really care what language they are using to scream at you while they do it? does your family, who doesnt know where you are, and wont see you for years, care what flag is flown over the walls that enclose you?
thieving_magpie 8y ago
>No, it's not. It's Communism. Well it isn't that either. Let's be clear that it's a concentration camp run by Chinese Communists with 'added brainwashing' as you put it.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
No, it'a Authoritarianism(TM) You don't need to be a commie or a fascist to have a government that treats people as though they have no rights.
kenmicklas 8y ago
> Cuba and Vietnam have the same system in operation. Ask anyone in the exile communities in the United States. There's a huge selection bias in asking emigrants or exiles or refugees or whatever you prefer to call them. If you are a militant Marxist-Leninist in Cuba you probably don't want to leave.
- dmix 8y ago
  > If you are a militant Marxist-Leninist in Cuba You say this as if that is a voluntary, natural outcome for citizens in these countries... they grow up hearing their governments blame every problem (their gov created) on the west, while bad news coming out of the West is promoted widely to convince the public that capitalism is backwards. So while I'm sure there are some intellectuals who are legitimate marxists in Cuba, I doubt the average working class person knows the difference. If they were given the option of the wealth of the average American (or even Mexican) or the cuban one I bet they'd chose the US in a second over the rampant poverty in Cuba. The people in exile have seen what the alternatives are. They are better informed, it can't all be dismissed as bias. If anything they should have less bias than a Cuban who has never left that bubble. And if you ever visit the non-tourist parts of Cuba it's incredibly depressing what socialism has done to them.
  - kenmicklas 8y ago
    Have you been to Cuba? That was not my experience there at all.
    - dmix 8y ago
      I would never make such a statement without having been there. I spent quite a lot of time walking in non-tourist areas, particularly small towns with dirt roads. I met a few locals on different occasions and visited their poorly built houses with no A/C, insects walking everywhere as the door was open to let the wind in, and pipes leaking. The stores are also severely limited in supply and prices were high for everything. The people were clearly depressed, which was apparent undertone even as they feigned niceness to the foreigners. I'm honestly shocked at people with a clear ideological agenda who try to pretend like their economic experiment wasn't a complete failure. Other parts of latin america and caribbean might be poor but Cuba could have done so much better. You can tell they are a strong-willed industrious people who work hard.

msla 8y ago

The fact this is downvoted is proof of the historical illiteracy of Hacker News readers.

educationdata 8y ago

How does this have anything to do with Communism? The Chinese Communist Party has the word "Communist" in its name, but it has nothing to do with Communism.

c2k18 8y ago
Exactly they use ideas that may have a base in communism but if you‘ve ever taken the effort in reading what real communism means you‘d know China is no communist state. It is a mix of several political ideas and capitalism is also a big part of it - it’s the part that leads other nations to produce goods at the cheapest rate there so they can say they’ve done everything they could to save the workers human rights. The truth is that companies like Apple etc very well know that people there are treated like slaves - but profit is more important than human lives...
oh_sigh 8y ago
Communists historically seem to be big on re-education camps. The first ones that spring to mind are in the USSR, post-war Vietnam, and these ones currently in China. Have there been many re-education camps in capitalist societies?
- pizza 8y ago
  They're called prisons over here (the US), and we have privatized some of them to generate profit, too. We have the largest incarcerated population in the world -- not even by per capita. Additionally, the 13th amendment makes slavery legal for the incarcerated, and many states take away the right for the incarcerated/felons/ex-felons to vote. There is actually a huge nation-wide prison strike currently going on (of course, not even mentioned in popular news) right now that you might find interesting -- check out their list of demands. California only just recently abolished the ability to buy yourself out of jail - cash bail.
  - dmix 8y ago
    Are you saying US prisons are "re-education" camps or are you just taking the opportunity to bring up some popular social issues in a weakly relevant "what-about-ism".
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - denerio-a 8y ago
      His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you.
      - 394549 8y ago
        > His point is obvious, clear, and inarguable. If you can’t grasp it that’s on you. His point is definitely arguable and not at all obvious or clear: it rests on conflating prisons with political re-education camps. The two things obviously have similarities, but they also have important differences.
        donbright 8y ago
        how important are the differences really? whether you are in a Chinese prison or a US prison does it really matter which injust, ridiculous, hypocritical system put you there? does it really matter what kind of grandiose intellectual contortions your captors use to justify their behavior towards you? if you are being raped or beaten or worked until you bleed do you really care what language they are using to scream at you while they do it? does your family, who doesnt know where you are, and wont see you for years, care what flag is flown over the walls that enclose you?

thieving_magpie 8y ago

>No, it's not. It's Communism. Well it isn't that either. Let's be clear that it's a concentration camp run by Chinese Communists with 'added brainwashing' as you put it.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

No, it'a Authoritarianism(TM) You don't need to be a commie or a fascist to have a government that treats people as though they have no rights.

kenmicklas 8y ago

> Cuba and Vietnam have the same system in operation. Ask anyone in the exile communities in the United States. There's a huge selection bias in asking emigrants or exiles or refugees or whatever you prefer to call them. If you are a militant Marxist-Leninist in Cuba you probably don't want to leave.

dmix 8y ago
> If you are a militant Marxist-Leninist in Cuba You say this as if that is a voluntary, natural outcome for citizens in these countries... they grow up hearing their governments blame every problem (their gov created) on the west, while bad news coming out of the West is promoted widely to convince the public that capitalism is backwards. So while I'm sure there are some intellectuals who are legitimate marxists in Cuba, I doubt the average working class person knows the difference. If they were given the option of the wealth of the average American (or even Mexican) or the cuban one I bet they'd chose the US in a second over the rampant poverty in Cuba. The people in exile have seen what the alternatives are. They are better informed, it can't all be dismissed as bias. If anything they should have less bias than a Cuban who has never left that bubble. And if you ever visit the non-tourist parts of Cuba it's incredibly depressing what socialism has done to them.
- kenmicklas 8y ago
  Have you been to Cuba? That was not my experience there at all.
  - dmix 8y ago
    I would never make such a statement without having been there. I spent quite a lot of time walking in non-tourist areas, particularly small towns with dirt roads. I met a few locals on different occasions and visited their poorly built houses with no A/C, insects walking everywhere as the door was open to let the wind in, and pipes leaking. The stores are also severely limited in supply and prices were high for everything. The people were clearly depressed, which was apparent undertone even as they feigned niceness to the foreigners. I'm honestly shocked at people with a clear ideological agenda who try to pretend like their economic experiment wasn't a complete failure. Other parts of latin america and caribbean might be poor but Cuba could have done so much better. You can tell they are a strong-willed industrious people who work hard.