8 ms·

I’m 30 and haven’t really had much dating experience. It boggles my mind how people are already married by 30. How does dating work? Serious question.

throwaway39 8y ago
Get a tinder account (pro version). Then chat with people you like. If you like the chat, ask her to have lunch. It's not rocket science. Do it as a job (go through 1000 a day), I assure you you'll have dates within 30 days. Marriage is very cultural. Either way life is not a race.
cableshaft 8y ago
I'm in my late 30s, and getting married sometime next year. I didn't really start dating anyone until my mid twenties, and didn't really start getting the hang of how to act around women until my early 30s, and I attribute most of that to going to a variety of meetups with different meetup groups on Meetup.com and just trying to talk to people a little at a time and showing up to enough things that eventually we knew each other well enough that I started getting invited to things outside of the meetup groups. I mainly went to board/video game nights, on hikes, movie nights, group dinners, museums, beach outings, and various one-off activities like scavenger hunts and mini-golf. Eventually I became more comfortable being around women and stopped being quite so awkward around them. I got a few dates through meetup, but ultimately I met my fiancee through OKCupid. However, I don't think I would have been comfortable around her without the two years of going to as many social events that I could handle in anything that looked remotely interesting to me. One thing I had to get over, also, is there are a lot of women in their twenties that aren't really emotionally available, for various reasons. Focused on their career, trying to figure out who they are and what they want in life, have their own struggles they're dealing with, etc. I would spend a ton of time and energy on certain women that I really fancied but they weren't really in the dating pool, even if they said they were. More like they were looking at it, and toying with the idea, but weren't serious about it. When I did date people like this, it always felt like a struggle to keep things going, like they weren't trying very hard to keep in touch or communicate their needs or I had to keep making larger and larger gestures just to watch things fall through my fingers. It wasn't until I happened upon some relationships that were actually pretty easy to keep going and the other person made a real effort that I realized that the former was actually not the norm, and not the best I could hope for. So I would recommend not putting too much energy into people that don't make an effort back. Just because they agree to dates doesn't mean that they're going to reciprocate your efforts. If you don't see them try to meet you at least 40% of the way (i.e. don't ever offer to pay for anything, don't come up with date ideas, don't initiate conversations, etc) after a month or two, it's probably not worth pursuing further, at least in my opinion.
lwhalen 8y ago
It is a wildly different experience if you are male vs female.
- sj3k 8y ago
  You've tried both? Not poking fun just curious.
  - lwhalen 8y ago
    in my single, more Lothario-oriented days, I've set up online dating profiles as women in my area with my ideal qualities to see what my competition sends out. It's a most eye-opening experience, that's for sure.
Snackchez 8y ago
1. Meet someone you're interested in via an online medium (tinder, bumble, POF, OKC, etc.) OR irl through social activities. 2. Go on a date. Follow KISS principle: evening time, grab a drink, socialize. Use FORD principle to create conversation. Test the waters with various topics of interests, talk about stuff that you find passionate (people usually gravitate to you if you speak passionately about something) 3. ??? Seriously, choose your own adventure. 4. You're dating. Second date, choose an activity or something else not drinking related (unless you bond over drinking... maybe that's your thing, no judgement).
- allthenews 8y ago
  This comment comes off as intensely smug, from someone who has little experience with difficulty in dating. Things are not so simple. In fact, the very nature of social interaction is such that it cannot be preemptively, logically broken down and solved. Many men have trouble getting past step 1 on the dating apps you list. The funnel of capture, so to speak, from message to response can be extremely wide, both on and offline. Of course, I believe I am describing the perspective of a male.
  - kerbalspacepro 8y ago
    The comment didn't come off as smug to me, but rather as so clearly true that it shouldn't need further explaining. With a high risk of being labeled a weird PUA-- social interaction is easily able to be broken down logically. Humans are animals, and just like animals can be trained and managed, humans can be trained and managed. It can be analyzed with data if you're willing to whip up a spreadsheet. It can be treated using business principles if you're so inclined. Also, don't call yourself a male, just like you wouldn't call a woman a "female" IRL. It is dehumanizing.
    - tuesdayrain 8y ago
      I refer to myself as "male" and I frequently see women refer to themselves as "female". Please don't tell me what I should be insulted by.
    - 8y ago
some_account 8y ago
Don't use apps for dating unless you want to compete on appearance and you want some good looking but boring, superficial and uninteresting tinder person. The only way to actually like someone, not just push a button that says like, is to spend time with them in real life.
- 131012 8y ago
  I totally concur. If the steps proposed looks too hard, start by making friends. These friends will make you meet other friends. Sharing a common interest is a good way to make things go a little further.
LyndsySimon 8y ago
I'm 34. I started dating my wife at 14, and married at 21. I have two kids now, 4 and 10. It's stressful sometimes, but very much worth it for me. Oh, and I have no idea how dating as an adult works. I've never done it!
JaumeGreen 8y ago
Look into pickup communities. Don't take it as gospel, in fact ignore most of it (specially negging, and any other kind of power plays). But you'll see that it's possible, you will also learn to read signs. Mostly dating consists of improving oneself, be social, don't objectify people and learn the unwritten rules.
- cableshaft 8y ago
  Negging as it's done in the PUA community is bad, sure. But the milder form of it, teasing, as long as it's mutual, I think can be a good thing in relationships. Sometimes what you say to each other sounds very similar, but the intent of negging is more malevolent.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  +1 to at least familiarizing yourself with PUA culture and literature. Ignore the people who say it’s shady. Ignore the bad advice to “just be yourself and one day magic will happen.” If you want to learn a skill (meeting women) where you have no inherent talent, then you have to study and practice. It’s like any sport. Some people have natural talent but most people are no good. The more you practice and learn, the better you will get.
  - nojvek 8y ago
    There’s some bad stuff in PUA and some reasonable things. Some genuinely helpful things I found. 1) Try making small talk conversations to every day strangers. It removes approach anxiety. Talk about the weather, the city, politics, anything. Being able to hold a stream of connected topics in a conversation is sort of a skill. Also kinda helps understand what’s creepy and what’s not. Good conversations skills are a great life skill. 2) Eye contact, volume and posture. Look into the other persons eye when talking to them. Don’t be too soft, but also not too loud. Don’t speak too fast too. When people don’t struggle to understand you, you project confidence. Dress with fitting clothes, be well trimmed and walk with a good posture. 3) have your own things, find your own happiness. Whether it’s work, hobbies, hikes, whatever. Something that you’re enjoy and you’re decently good at. Great if you have a group of friends that you regular do things with. Be happy and contempt. 4) Life is not a race. You don’t need to try too hard. Good things will eventually happen if you’re meeting women your age and having decent conversations.
alexpotato 8y ago
I was a "late bloomer" when it came to dating and didn't really start dating at all until I moved to NYC in 2007 (age 26). Here is what happened for me: - Used Match then POF then OKC - Probably went on about 150 dates over the course of about 4-5 years. Sounds like a lot but averages out to 1 every 2 weeks. In reality it was probably 4 to 5 over a two week span every couple of months. Most of the time was just sending LOTS of "requests" out and playing the law of large numbers. I liked OKC too b/c they had some gamification circa early 2010s that helped you find people who were attracted to you. - Most of the dates did not translate into 2nd dates for a long time. I attribute this to not being good at "dating" in general, flirting in particular and the low switching costs of dating in NYC for the other side e.g. if you are a pretty girl in your 20's in NYC there will "be another one soon" -Read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Changed my life. Primarily, I realized my model for interacting with women was based on familial roles e.g. empathy, sharing emotions etc. I realized that is great for family or long term relationships but not for first dating and the first three months. The book taught me that being "playful" and "good natured teasing" were the most important parts initially. I realized I already had those parts of my personality but I wasn't exposing them because I thought that wasn't how dating "worked". A lot of the stories in the book are not practical for finding quality long term relationships but a couple of points stuck out to me: - One a lot of what you think think are limits in social interaction are in your head and therefore can be ignored - He has a quote in the book where he says "My friends and my family failed me because they love me for who I was and not for who I could become" - Human interaction (be it with men or women) is a lot more "programmatic" than you think it is. e.g. Saying phrase1, phrase2, phrase3 can be very different than saying phr3, phr1, phr2. How you say something can have way more impact than what you say. - Like with persuasion in general, it can sometimes border on manipulation so it's important to have your own "line" to cross. That being said, it's a lot like working out physically: you can get bigger muscles but you can't get taller. In personality terms: you can learn funny stories to help you make friends but that won't make you a comedian. In other words, there is always a way to improve but don't fight too hard to change things you can't and don't be someone you're not. I would also recommend these guys: https://theartofcharm.com/ https://theartofcharm.com/ They definitely offer the best combination of practical advice while also being respectful to women and offering lots of great non-dating advice. This was a very frustrating process for me and if people are interested in the above I am happy to add more color/suggestions if it saves others the time and frustration I went through.
umvi 8y ago
I didn't get married until I was in my late 20s. Before that I had never held hands, never kissed, was still a virgin, etc. I always struggled with thinking my competition had a huge advantage by having experience in all those things. But now that I have significant experience myself (married + 2 kids), I realize that wasn't really the case. You can go from a level 0 kisser to a level 3 kisser in an evening or two (most people never make it past level 3). And plus, the people worth dating won't reject you on inexperience in those things alone.
- kough 8y ago
  Please explain what the levels of kissing are? Or link to a description?
  - whamlastxmas 8y ago
    He probably just meant being a good or bad kisser.
fossuser 8y ago
I think the biggest help is living in an area that has a lot of the group you're interested in dating (whether that's men or women). If you're a single man in the bay area interested in women it's a lot harder than being in NYC or DC (not impossible, but everything is harder). If you're in an area that has a lot of people you get more social skills practice and it's easier to meet people via apps and just regular life. The other stuff is just social skills practice, wearing nicer clothes, being in better shape etc. All those can be worked on separately, but all of that is given a difficulty modifier based on how competitive your area is. As someone who's spent years in the bay area as a single man (some dates, one relationship) and then some time in DC the difference in difficulty is comically obvious.
vorpalhex 8y ago
Dated heavily through HS and college, got married my last semester of university and am still happily married. I have a few friends who are still in the dating game, and some who have gotten married recently as adults, so I'll try to fuse what I can: + Unless your goal is to hookup or just have fun, avoid dating apps. Dating apps are basically meat markets with a layer of social skills. Instead focus on engaging in activities that you really enjoy and meeting people through them - hiking, classic cinema, etc. Instead of judging purely on looks you'll have a chance to interact with possible partners and start with strong common ground. You'll also gain meaningful friendships this way which is beneficial in a lot of other ways. + Do focus on self improvement. Do active things (that are also enjoyable and fun), have a robust career, and seriously spend time introspecting your own personality and mind. Learn the finer points of manners, make sure to have spotless hygiene, and clean up your style. + Important note here - charisma, like everything else, can be studied and learned. I had terrible charisma until I spent time learning it. Ask a socially skilled confidant to (gently) critique your charisma and give you feedback. Consider taking something like improv if you do better in a classroom setting. + 60/40. 60% of your attention should be focused on your partner and their needs. You don't want to hog all the attention, but you also don't want to dote on them like some kind of clingy rescue animal. Given that people tend to be a little bit self biased, 60/40 tends to be a good split to keep in mind. Small gestures (filling their glass before yours, pulling chairs out for them, etc) go a very very long way. + Treat other people well, and treat other people personably. That is to say, treat others (whether it's a romantic partner or a random waiter) as if they are a good friend, and that you will see them quite frequently.
headcanon 8y ago
I'm guessing because you're on this site, you might have a professional life and/or hobbies that skew towards the introverted and solitary, or at the very least are predominantly male-dominated. Ultimately you have to find activities that allow you to meet a more diverse group of people, and when doing so, project a general air of confidence and sociability. Keep doing it until it becomes natural, it may take years. Maybe you'll meet someone special romantically, maybe you'll just make friends. Either way you win. If you're not working out, then start. It will help immensely. If you're not eating right, then start. These are the two most important things you can do, especially if you don't know where to start. Leverage existing social networks - have friends who are couples? get to know them better, its possible they'll know someone they can set you up with. Dating apps can work for some people but they can be an absolute grind and can leave you disillusioned and discouraged. Don't resort to "tricks", don't "try" too hard, and don't think you have to become someone you're not comfortable with - just become the best version of yourself you can be, and just get yourself out there. Everything else will eventually fall into place. Edit: someone mentioned improv - I would say this is 100% one of the best group activities you can do - they are inclusive, supportive, and have a diverse group of men and women. You will make friends, increase confidence, and be a part of a community. Think of it like an investment. The more and longer you invest in your social life, the more rewards you will reap.
- andrewingram 8y ago
  One interesting gotcha, which people frequently find baffling, is that it's possible to take up hobbies which involve a lot of interaction with members of the opposite sex, but don't lend themselves well to actually getting to know them. I mean this in the sense that if you already struggle with connecting with people, just being around a greater volume of people won't fix that problem. I've been doing salsa somewhere between 2 and 5 nights a week more-or-less continuously for the last 6 years. By those who know me, i'm generally regarded as one of the best relative to my experience level (this is something I really struggle to accept, but I hear it enough to be willing to share it), and the vast majority of my friends are women. All of this has had zero impact on my confidence with women as far as dating or relationships are concerned, or even just casual purely platonic conversation with either women or men. My takeaway from this is, that if you are going to invest in an activity for the purpose of meeting people and building confidence, you'll want to to choose an activity that actually throws you into the situations you struggle with. So now i'm looking for a parallel interest, improv is actually pretty appealing.
nostrademons 8y ago
I didn't go on my first date until a month before my 30th birthday. Met my eventual wife on OKCupid 18 months later, married her 2 years after that, and now have a 7 month old, ~7 years after it all started. I'll disagree with a lot of the advice given here. The pictures on online dating sites are what you make of them. I didn't even like my wife's pictures, I only messaged her because she was playing 4 truths and a lie on her profile and I wanted to call out the lie. I also read The Game and some PUA communities, but soured on them when a.) all my female friends told me "Dude, you're skeevy just for even mentioning them" and a married coworker was like "Well, it works on some girls - usually the type that's a total trainwreck in a relationship anyway." Things that did work: 1. Send lots of messages, and go on lots of dates. I think I sent about 250 messages and went on 30+ first dates. Only 3 led to a second date, and the two that were not my wife were previous offline acquaintances that happened to pop up on my OKCupid matches. (I dated them for like 15 and 8 dates, respectively, before deciding that it wasn't really working.) 2. Dating is basically entirely emotional. Whatever rational thoughts you're having about it are probably useless, and probably counterproductive (other than avoiding obvious pitfalls like dating someone who's married, someone who's cheated on everyone they've always dated, someone who wants a totally different lifestyle from you, someone who wants kids when you don't, etc). Go with your gut on everything. Don't trust your gut? Work on that problem first before dating. 3. "Common wisdom" is more foolish than most people think. I had a couple coworkers take me out on a shopping makeover, where they helped me pick out some very stylish new clothes that got me complements from a bunch of my other friends. What was my eventual wife's reaction? "Well, he's cute, but I think he may be gay. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here..." And then she called me SkinnyJeans to all her female friends for the next 2 months (this was 2012, it was the style then). She didn't (and doesn't) care about appearances; that was part of what makes us a good match. 4. Broaden your idea of what a good partner might look like. As a kid, I had an image of my eventual wife: thin, white, blonde, popular, gracious, and smart. My wife is the latter 3 of these, but she's a stocky Taiwanese-American. And similarly, I'm not a bald Mexican soccer player named Santiago. ;-) (Ironically, both of us previously dated people who pretty much entirely matched our checklist, and found we couldn't stand talking to them.) 5. Related to the last 2 points, you aren't looking for America's sweetheart, you're looking for your sweetheart. Our couple's counselor told us that one common failure mode for people who get married young is that they marry the image of what popular culture says they should want, which presents a lot of problems when they grow older and realize that they have preferences & values that are distinct from what the culture around them values. 6. When you meet the right person, you'll know. Well, sort of. I knew within 20 minutes of meeting my wife that she was a lot more fun and easier to talk to than any other first date I'd been on. I didn't know for sure that I wanted her to be my wife until about 6 months after we got married. Most of my objections in the intervening 3 years were fears masquerading as rational objections - "Am I really ready to settle down?", "But she's not who I thought I would marry", "It's weird having her family so close by when mine is all the way across the country", "What'll this mean for my startup dreams?". 7. Learn to recognize fear. If you want to be with someone even though you're afraid of it, you must really love them. Listen to that and not the fear. (Note that I said "it" instead of "them" - if you fear the person, that's a real problem you should listen to. Many people don't fear the person, they fear the relationship and what it means for their self-identity.) 8. Consider therapy. It's cliche, but you have to learn to love yourself before you can expect other people to love you. I was bullied pretty intensively in middle school, which included a lot of sexualized teasing of the form "I can't imagine nostrademons ever getting a girlfriend", even from my "friends". I internalized that over the next 18 years, such that even long after I'd left my home state and everyone I knew behind, I was still subconsciously living it. Once I became conscious of that thought-loop and dealt with it, it was only 3 weeks until I found my wife.
shapiro92 8y ago
honestly, I am 26 and I just cracked it (I think). So I had a few relationships but they were mostly out of luck/randomness. Then I realized, I care too much.. I care if I will "invade" their space, if they feel comfortable, if they will think I am a creep or so. Nowadays, if I want to talk to someone, I just do. It works wonder, I think we create this "cage" of social fear on our own due to our insecurities.
- nojvek 8y ago
  Humans are kind of complex, you never quite fully figure it out. But you’re right, with the right person, things just resonate. You don’t have to put an extreme amount of effort or be worried about little things.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I don't know man. When I was going through a part of my life where I cared enough to try it, I found dating to be absolutely tedious. Some people must just find that sort of thing more interesting or fun, or have goals or social pressures that require it.
jondubois 8y ago
If you're a regular looking guy and you don't completely go out of your comfort zone, then you could spend years without any dates; it's normal; it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. On one extreme, if you're good looking and rich, then maybe 99% of people you meet will like you. If you're plain looking and poor then maybe only 0.01% will like you so you just need to try MUCH harder. Being average does make it easier to form genuine (healthy) relationships though so it's not all bad. You don't want to attract the wrong kind of attention.
newnewpdro 8y ago
Consider yourself lucky. Since you're on HN, I'm going to assume you've benefitted tremendously from the lack of unnecessary distractions and expenses in your life dating tends to include. edit: As far as actually dating goes... this can be made complicated and probably not best advised on HN. But the TL;DR: 1. Take care of yourself; being healthy, fit, and attractive makes this all a whole lot easier. 2. Make yourself available; put yourself out there, spend time in public spaces where people your age congregate and socialize. Cafes work well for this. Special interest groups like meetup or other sporting leagues also work. You can fallback on online dating services, but it's not ideal. 3. Pay attention to signals; women do all sorts of things to communicate interest. Adjusting their hair, clothes, overt and excessive stretching in your field of view, repeated smiling, eye-fucking, unnecessary physical contact. These are invitations, open a dialog if you're interested, say hi. There's more that can be said, but I think that pretty much covers the fundamentals. #1 is the most impactful in my experience. A sexy physique under well-fitting clothes goes such a long way, it can be quite annoying if you're not interested in the attention.
Aeolun 8y ago
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever dated as such. All my relationships came out of meeting with friends/a group of people and having a girl at roughly the same point in life be in the same group. You interact without any obligations at first, and at some point it becomes clear that even though you didn’t explicitly say so, you are interested in the other. I’m not quite sure how it proceeds from there to doing ‘something’ exclusively together, but I assume this is generally the point where asking the other out to the movies happens. To be honest, if that’s accepted after all this, it’s never been a bad relationship for me yet (even though some ended, happily married now).

throwaway39 8y ago

Get a tinder account (pro version). Then chat with people you like. If you like the chat, ask her to have lunch. It's not rocket science. Do it as a job (go through 1000 a day), I assure you you'll have dates within 30 days. Marriage is very cultural. Either way life is not a race.

cableshaft 8y ago

I'm in my late 30s, and getting married sometime next year. I didn't really start dating anyone until my mid twenties, and didn't really start getting the hang of how to act around women until my early 30s, and I attribute most of that to going to a variety of meetups with different meetup groups on Meetup.com and just trying to talk to people a little at a time and showing up to enough things that eventually we knew each other well enough that I started getting invited to things outside of the meetup groups. I mainly went to board/video game nights, on hikes, movie nights, group dinners, museums, beach outings, and various one-off activities like scavenger hunts and mini-golf. Eventually I became more comfortable being around women and stopped being quite so awkward around them. I got a few dates through meetup, but ultimately I met my fiancee through OKCupid. However, I don't think I would have been comfortable around her without the two years of going to as many social events that I could handle in anything that looked remotely interesting to me. One thing I had to get over, also, is there are a lot of women in their twenties that aren't really emotionally available, for various reasons. Focused on their career, trying to figure out who they are and what they want in life, have their own struggles they're dealing with, etc. I would spend a ton of time and energy on certain women that I really fancied but they weren't really in the dating pool, even if they said they were. More like they were looking at it, and toying with the idea, but weren't serious about it. When I did date people like this, it always felt like a struggle to keep things going, like they weren't trying very hard to keep in touch or communicate their needs or I had to keep making larger and larger gestures just to watch things fall through my fingers. It wasn't until I happened upon some relationships that were actually pretty easy to keep going and the other person made a real effort that I realized that the former was actually not the norm, and not the best I could hope for. So I would recommend not putting too much energy into people that don't make an effort back. Just because they agree to dates doesn't mean that they're going to reciprocate your efforts. If you don't see them try to meet you at least 40% of the way (i.e. don't ever offer to pay for anything, don't come up with date ideas, don't initiate conversations, etc) after a month or two, it's probably not worth pursuing further, at least in my opinion.

lwhalen 8y ago

It is a wildly different experience if you are male vs female.

sj3k 8y ago
You've tried both? Not poking fun just curious.
- lwhalen 8y ago
  in my single, more Lothario-oriented days, I've set up online dating profiles as women in my area with my ideal qualities to see what my competition sends out. It's a most eye-opening experience, that's for sure.

Snackchez 8y ago

1. Meet someone you're interested in via an online medium (tinder, bumble, POF, OKC, etc.) OR irl through social activities. 2. Go on a date. Follow KISS principle: evening time, grab a drink, socialize. Use FORD principle to create conversation. Test the waters with various topics of interests, talk about stuff that you find passionate (people usually gravitate to you if you speak passionately about something) 3. ??? Seriously, choose your own adventure. 4. You're dating. Second date, choose an activity or something else not drinking related (unless you bond over drinking... maybe that's your thing, no judgement).

allthenews 8y ago
This comment comes off as intensely smug, from someone who has little experience with difficulty in dating. Things are not so simple. In fact, the very nature of social interaction is such that it cannot be preemptively, logically broken down and solved. Many men have trouble getting past step 1 on the dating apps you list. The funnel of capture, so to speak, from message to response can be extremely wide, both on and offline. Of course, I believe I am describing the perspective of a male.
- kerbalspacepro 8y ago
  The comment didn't come off as smug to me, but rather as so clearly true that it shouldn't need further explaining. With a high risk of being labeled a weird PUA-- social interaction is easily able to be broken down logically. Humans are animals, and just like animals can be trained and managed, humans can be trained and managed. It can be analyzed with data if you're willing to whip up a spreadsheet. It can be treated using business principles if you're so inclined. Also, don't call yourself a male, just like you wouldn't call a woman a "female" IRL. It is dehumanizing.
  - tuesdayrain 8y ago
    I refer to myself as "male" and I frequently see women refer to themselves as "female". Please don't tell me what I should be insulted by.
  - 8y ago

some_account 8y ago

Don't use apps for dating unless you want to compete on appearance and you want some good looking but boring, superficial and uninteresting tinder person. The only way to actually like someone, not just push a button that says like, is to spend time with them in real life.

131012 8y ago
I totally concur. If the steps proposed looks too hard, start by making friends. These friends will make you meet other friends. Sharing a common interest is a good way to make things go a little further.

LyndsySimon 8y ago

I'm 34. I started dating my wife at 14, and married at 21. I have two kids now, 4 and 10. It's stressful sometimes, but very much worth it for me. Oh, and I have no idea how dating as an adult works. I've never done it!

JaumeGreen 8y ago

Look into pickup communities. Don't take it as gospel, in fact ignore most of it (specially negging, and any other kind of power plays). But you'll see that it's possible, you will also learn to read signs. Mostly dating consists of improving oneself, be social, don't objectify people and learn the unwritten rules.

cableshaft 8y ago
Negging as it's done in the PUA community is bad, sure. But the milder form of it, teasing, as long as it's mutual, I think can be a good thing in relationships. Sometimes what you say to each other sounds very similar, but the intent of negging is more malevolent.
ryandrake 8y ago
+1 to at least familiarizing yourself with PUA culture and literature. Ignore the people who say it’s shady. Ignore the bad advice to “just be yourself and one day magic will happen.” If you want to learn a skill (meeting women) where you have no inherent talent, then you have to study and practice. It’s like any sport. Some people have natural talent but most people are no good. The more you practice and learn, the better you will get.
- nojvek 8y ago
  There’s some bad stuff in PUA and some reasonable things. Some genuinely helpful things I found. 1) Try making small talk conversations to every day strangers. It removes approach anxiety. Talk about the weather, the city, politics, anything. Being able to hold a stream of connected topics in a conversation is sort of a skill. Also kinda helps understand what’s creepy and what’s not. Good conversations skills are a great life skill. 2) Eye contact, volume and posture. Look into the other persons eye when talking to them. Don’t be too soft, but also not too loud. Don’t speak too fast too. When people don’t struggle to understand you, you project confidence. Dress with fitting clothes, be well trimmed and walk with a good posture. 3) have your own things, find your own happiness. Whether it’s work, hobbies, hikes, whatever. Something that you’re enjoy and you’re decently good at. Great if you have a group of friends that you regular do things with. Be happy and contempt. 4) Life is not a race. You don’t need to try too hard. Good things will eventually happen if you’re meeting women your age and having decent conversations.

alexpotato 8y ago

I was a "late bloomer" when it came to dating and didn't really start dating at all until I moved to NYC in 2007 (age 26). Here is what happened for me: - Used Match then POF then OKC - Probably went on about 150 dates over the course of about 4-5 years. Sounds like a lot but averages out to 1 every 2 weeks. In reality it was probably 4 to 5 over a two week span every couple of months. Most of the time was just sending LOTS of "requests" out and playing the law of large numbers. I liked OKC too b/c they had some gamification circa early 2010s that helped you find people who were attracted to you. - Most of the dates did not translate into 2nd dates for a long time. I attribute this to not being good at "dating" in general, flirting in particular and the low switching costs of dating in NYC for the other side e.g. if you are a pretty girl in your 20's in NYC there will "be another one soon" -Read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Changed my life. Primarily, I realized my model for interacting with women was based on familial roles e.g. empathy, sharing emotions etc. I realized that is great for family or long term relationships but not for first dating and the first three months. The book taught me that being "playful" and "good natured teasing" were the most important parts initially. I realized I already had those parts of my personality but I wasn't exposing them because I thought that wasn't how dating "worked". A lot of the stories in the book are not practical for finding quality long term relationships but a couple of points stuck out to me: - One a lot of what you think think are limits in social interaction are in your head and therefore can be ignored - He has a quote in the book where he says "My friends and my family failed me because they love me for who I was and not for who I could become" - Human interaction (be it with men or women) is a lot more "programmatic" than you think it is. e.g. Saying phrase1, phrase2, phrase3 can be very different than saying phr3, phr1, phr2. How you say something can have way more impact than what you say. - Like with persuasion in general, it can sometimes border on manipulation so it's important to have your own "line" to cross. That being said, it's a lot like working out physically: you can get bigger muscles but you can't get taller. In personality terms: you can learn funny stories to help you make friends but that won't make you a comedian. In other words, there is always a way to improve but don't fight too hard to change things you can't and don't be someone you're not. I would also recommend these guys: https://theartofcharm.com/ https://theartofcharm.com/ They definitely offer the best combination of practical advice while also being respectful to women and offering lots of great non-dating advice. This was a very frustrating process for me and if people are interested in the above I am happy to add more color/suggestions if it saves others the time and frustration I went through.

umvi 8y ago

I didn't get married until I was in my late 20s. Before that I had never held hands, never kissed, was still a virgin, etc. I always struggled with thinking my competition had a huge advantage by having experience in all those things. But now that I have significant experience myself (married + 2 kids), I realize that wasn't really the case. You can go from a level 0 kisser to a level 3 kisser in an evening or two (most people never make it past level 3). And plus, the people worth dating won't reject you on inexperience in those things alone.

kough 8y ago
Please explain what the levels of kissing are? Or link to a description?
- whamlastxmas 8y ago
  He probably just meant being a good or bad kisser.

fossuser 8y ago

I think the biggest help is living in an area that has a lot of the group you're interested in dating (whether that's men or women). If you're a single man in the bay area interested in women it's a lot harder than being in NYC or DC (not impossible, but everything is harder). If you're in an area that has a lot of people you get more social skills practice and it's easier to meet people via apps and just regular life. The other stuff is just social skills practice, wearing nicer clothes, being in better shape etc. All those can be worked on separately, but all of that is given a difficulty modifier based on how competitive your area is. As someone who's spent years in the bay area as a single man (some dates, one relationship) and then some time in DC the difference in difficulty is comically obvious.

vorpalhex 8y ago

Dated heavily through HS and college, got married my last semester of university and am still happily married. I have a few friends who are still in the dating game, and some who have gotten married recently as adults, so I'll try to fuse what I can: + Unless your goal is to hookup or just have fun, avoid dating apps. Dating apps are basically meat markets with a layer of social skills. Instead focus on engaging in activities that you really enjoy and meeting people through them - hiking, classic cinema, etc. Instead of judging purely on looks you'll have a chance to interact with possible partners and start with strong common ground. You'll also gain meaningful friendships this way which is beneficial in a lot of other ways. + Do focus on self improvement. Do active things (that are also enjoyable and fun), have a robust career, and seriously spend time introspecting your own personality and mind. Learn the finer points of manners, make sure to have spotless hygiene, and clean up your style. + Important note here - charisma, like everything else, can be studied and learned. I had terrible charisma until I spent time learning it. Ask a socially skilled confidant to (gently) critique your charisma and give you feedback. Consider taking something like improv if you do better in a classroom setting. + 60/40. 60% of your attention should be focused on your partner and their needs. You don't want to hog all the attention, but you also don't want to dote on them like some kind of clingy rescue animal. Given that people tend to be a little bit self biased, 60/40 tends to be a good split to keep in mind. Small gestures (filling their glass before yours, pulling chairs out for them, etc) go a very very long way. + Treat other people well, and treat other people personably. That is to say, treat others (whether it's a romantic partner or a random waiter) as if they are a good friend, and that you will see them quite frequently.

headcanon 8y ago

I'm guessing because you're on this site, you might have a professional life and/or hobbies that skew towards the introverted and solitary, or at the very least are predominantly male-dominated. Ultimately you have to find activities that allow you to meet a more diverse group of people, and when doing so, project a general air of confidence and sociability. Keep doing it until it becomes natural, it may take years. Maybe you'll meet someone special romantically, maybe you'll just make friends. Either way you win. If you're not working out, then start. It will help immensely. If you're not eating right, then start. These are the two most important things you can do, especially if you don't know where to start. Leverage existing social networks - have friends who are couples? get to know them better, its possible they'll know someone they can set you up with. Dating apps can work for some people but they can be an absolute grind and can leave you disillusioned and discouraged. Don't resort to "tricks", don't "try" too hard, and don't think you have to become someone you're not comfortable with - just become the best version of yourself you can be, and just get yourself out there. Everything else will eventually fall into place. Edit: someone mentioned improv - I would say this is 100% one of the best group activities you can do - they are inclusive, supportive, and have a diverse group of men and women. You will make friends, increase confidence, and be a part of a community. Think of it like an investment. The more and longer you invest in your social life, the more rewards you will reap.

andrewingram 8y ago
One interesting gotcha, which people frequently find baffling, is that it's possible to take up hobbies which involve a lot of interaction with members of the opposite sex, but don't lend themselves well to actually getting to know them. I mean this in the sense that if you already struggle with connecting with people, just being around a greater volume of people won't fix that problem. I've been doing salsa somewhere between 2 and 5 nights a week more-or-less continuously for the last 6 years. By those who know me, i'm generally regarded as one of the best relative to my experience level (this is something I really struggle to accept, but I hear it enough to be willing to share it), and the vast majority of my friends are women. All of this has had zero impact on my confidence with women as far as dating or relationships are concerned, or even just casual purely platonic conversation with either women or men. My takeaway from this is, that if you are going to invest in an activity for the purpose of meeting people and building confidence, you'll want to to choose an activity that actually throws you into the situations you struggle with. So now i'm looking for a parallel interest, improv is actually pretty appealing.

nostrademons 8y ago

I didn't go on my first date until a month before my 30th birthday. Met my eventual wife on OKCupid 18 months later, married her 2 years after that, and now have a 7 month old, ~7 years after it all started. I'll disagree with a lot of the advice given here. The pictures on online dating sites are what you make of them. I didn't even like my wife's pictures, I only messaged her because she was playing 4 truths and a lie on her profile and I wanted to call out the lie. I also read The Game and some PUA communities, but soured on them when a.) all my female friends told me "Dude, you're skeevy just for even mentioning them" and a married coworker was like "Well, it works on some girls - usually the type that's a total trainwreck in a relationship anyway." Things that did work: 1. Send lots of messages, and go on lots of dates. I think I sent about 250 messages and went on 30+ first dates. Only 3 led to a second date, and the two that were not my wife were previous offline acquaintances that happened to pop up on my OKCupid matches. (I dated them for like 15 and 8 dates, respectively, before deciding that it wasn't really working.) 2. Dating is basically entirely emotional. Whatever rational thoughts you're having about it are probably useless, and probably counterproductive (other than avoiding obvious pitfalls like dating someone who's married, someone who's cheated on everyone they've always dated, someone who wants a totally different lifestyle from you, someone who wants kids when you don't, etc). Go with your gut on everything. Don't trust your gut? Work on that problem first before dating. 3. "Common wisdom" is more foolish than most people think. I had a couple coworkers take me out on a shopping makeover, where they helped me pick out some very stylish new clothes that got me complements from a bunch of my other friends. What was my eventual wife's reaction? "Well, he's cute, but I think he may be gay. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here..." And then she called me SkinnyJeans to all her female friends for the next 2 months (this was 2012, it was the style then). She didn't (and doesn't) care about appearances; that was part of what makes us a good match. 4. Broaden your idea of what a good partner might look like. As a kid, I had an image of my eventual wife: thin, white, blonde, popular, gracious, and smart. My wife is the latter 3 of these, but she's a stocky Taiwanese-American. And similarly, I'm not a bald Mexican soccer player named Santiago. ;-) (Ironically, both of us previously dated people who pretty much entirely matched our checklist, and found we couldn't stand talking to them.) 5. Related to the last 2 points, you aren't looking for America's sweetheart, you're looking for your sweetheart. Our couple's counselor told us that one common failure mode for people who get married young is that they marry the image of what popular culture says they should want, which presents a lot of problems when they grow older and realize that they have preferences & values that are distinct from what the culture around them values. 6. When you meet the right person, you'll know. Well, sort of. I knew within 20 minutes of meeting my wife that she was a lot more fun and easier to talk to than any other first date I'd been on. I didn't know for sure that I wanted her to be my wife until about 6 months after we got married. Most of my objections in the intervening 3 years were fears masquerading as rational objections - "Am I really ready to settle down?", "But she's not who I thought I would marry", "It's weird having her family so close by when mine is all the way across the country", "What'll this mean for my startup dreams?". 7. Learn to recognize fear. If you want to be with someone even though you're afraid of it, you must really love them. Listen to that and not the fear. (Note that I said "it" instead of "them" - if you fear the person, that's a real problem you should listen to. Many people don't fear the person, they fear the relationship and what it means for their self-identity.) 8. Consider therapy. It's cliche, but you have to learn to love yourself before you can expect other people to love you. I was bullied pretty intensively in middle school, which included a lot of sexualized teasing of the form "I can't imagine nostrademons ever getting a girlfriend", even from my "friends". I internalized that over the next 18 years, such that even long after I'd left my home state and everyone I knew behind, I was still subconsciously living it. Once I became conscious of that thought-loop and dealt with it, it was only 3 weeks until I found my wife.

shapiro92 8y ago

honestly, I am 26 and I just cracked it (I think). So I had a few relationships but they were mostly out of luck/randomness. Then I realized, I care too much.. I care if I will "invade" their space, if they feel comfortable, if they will think I am a creep or so. Nowadays, if I want to talk to someone, I just do. It works wonder, I think we create this "cage" of social fear on our own due to our insecurities.

nojvek 8y ago
Humans are kind of complex, you never quite fully figure it out. But you’re right, with the right person, things just resonate. You don’t have to put an extreme amount of effort or be worried about little things.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I don't know man. When I was going through a part of my life where I cared enough to try it, I found dating to be absolutely tedious. Some people must just find that sort of thing more interesting or fun, or have goals or social pressures that require it.

jondubois 8y ago

If you're a regular looking guy and you don't completely go out of your comfort zone, then you could spend years without any dates; it's normal; it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. On one extreme, if you're good looking and rich, then maybe 99% of people you meet will like you. If you're plain looking and poor then maybe only 0.01% will like you so you just need to try MUCH harder. Being average does make it easier to form genuine (healthy) relationships though so it's not all bad. You don't want to attract the wrong kind of attention.

newnewpdro 8y ago

Consider yourself lucky. Since you're on HN, I'm going to assume you've benefitted tremendously from the lack of unnecessary distractions and expenses in your life dating tends to include. edit: As far as actually dating goes... this can be made complicated and probably not best advised on HN. But the TL;DR: 1. Take care of yourself; being healthy, fit, and attractive makes this all a whole lot easier. 2. Make yourself available; put yourself out there, spend time in public spaces where people your age congregate and socialize. Cafes work well for this. Special interest groups like meetup or other sporting leagues also work. You can fallback on online dating services, but it's not ideal. 3. Pay attention to signals; women do all sorts of things to communicate interest. Adjusting their hair, clothes, overt and excessive stretching in your field of view, repeated smiling, eye-fucking, unnecessary physical contact. These are invitations, open a dialog if you're interested, say hi. There's more that can be said, but I think that pretty much covers the fundamentals. #1 is the most impactful in my experience. A sexy physique under well-fitting clothes goes such a long way, it can be quite annoying if you're not interested in the attention.

Aeolun 8y ago

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever dated as such. All my relationships came out of meeting with friends/a group of people and having a girl at roughly the same point in life be in the same group. You interact without any obligations at first, and at some point it becomes clear that even though you didn’t explicitly say so, you are interested in the other. I’m not quite sure how it proceeds from there to doing ‘something’ exclusively together, but I assume this is generally the point where asking the other out to the movies happens. To be honest, if that’s accepted after all this, it’s never been a bad relationship for me yet (even though some ended, happily married now).