8 ms·

Sometimes this discussion arises, and as I remember it, there are two kind of "Helium" that should be discussed. The first case is the common helium, used to f

Sometimes this discussion arises, and as I remember it, there are two kind of "Helium" that should be discussed. The first case is the common helium, used to fill up baloons and so on. It is mixed with many others gases, it is common, the price is very low, and despite being used to many things, it isn't running out, supplies aren't getting empty. The second case is the "helium" as a pure gas, composed by helium and nothing else (except for traces of other gases). This is rare, this is expansive, this is hard to get (and it costs a lot to extract pure helium from the atmosphere). This is the helium that we are "running out", despite being able to extract it from sources, as the price might and will increase.

deleted 8y ago
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nradov 8y ago
No there's really only one kind of helium, with varying levels of purity. Even balloon helium is usually almost 100% pure. Helium is never extracted from the air; there isn't enough of it there to be practical. We get it as a byproduct of natural gas extraction.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Isn’t balloon helium mixed with oxygen so that children don’t suffocate inhaling it?
  - nradov 8y ago
    That has been tried occasionally but it isn't common. Suffocation isn't a real risk since once you pass out you'll drop the balloon and breathe air again, although if you're standing up you might fall and hurt yourself. Most retail gas suppliers prefer to sell only pure gasses. If they have to do custom mixing it requires extra processing steps for blending and analysis, plus they're taking on additional liability. So you can probably get heliox if you ask, but you'll pay more for it. Gas suppliers keep all their helium in one big set of storage tanks. The only real difference between various helium grades they sell is how careful they are about pulling a vacuum on your cylinder before filling it.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      By "balloon helium" I assumed you were talking about those little tanks that you can buy in party stores to fill up your balloons, not gas suppliers.
  - Kadin 8y ago
    Nope. The stuff you can get from party stores (in the US, anyway) definitely isn't; more than one person that I have heard of has committed suicide with it.
    - miles 8y ago
      >> Isn’t balloon helium mixed with oxygen so that children don’t suffocate inhaling it? > Nope. The stuff you can get from party stores (in the US, anyway) definitely isn't; more than one person that I have heard of has committed suicide with it. Apparently, ballon helium is now often mixed with air in the US: Where can a person obtain ‘pure’ helium? http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2015/07/11/where-can-a-person-obtain-pure-helium/ http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2015/07/11/where-can-a-person... Unfortunately I missed the warning about the change in helium tanks that will now include oxygen. Ballon Time FAQ https://www.balloontime.com/contact-us/faqs/ https://www.balloontime.com/contact-us/faqs/ Our helium is rated from 98-99.99 percent pure. However, due to global helium supply issues, we are now mixing helium with air. All tanks will have 80 percent or more helium.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ars 8y ago
  > Even balloon helium is usually almost 100% pure Are you sure? I ask, because latex helium filled balloons slowly lose air as the helium leaks out - but after some time they stop, and stay a fixed size. But they don't float when they reach that point! If it were pure helium, wouldn't a: all the helium leak out, and b: still float if for whatever reason the helium did not leak? Personally I suspect helium balloons have just enough helium to float when full and the rest is regular air.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Regardless of helium supply issues we should ban the use of helium party balloons due to severe environmental impact. https://www.zoo.org.au/get-involved/act-for-wildlife/balloons https://www.zoo.org.au/get-involved/act-for-wildlife/balloon...
  - androidgirl 8y ago
    I imagine the latex of the balloon has a lower rate of loss as stretching decreases. As it deflates, the relative weight of the balloon vs helium also goes up.
  - Kadin 8y ago
    Latex balloons deflate due to helium permeating the latex. IIRC this is proportional to the difference in pressure between the inside and outside of the balloon. (Because the rate is proportional to the difference in pressure.) The balloon isn't going to deflate completely; eventually the pressure on the inside and outside will equilibrate. The balloon doesn't return to its original pre-inflated size because, I suspect, of some amount of irreversible deformation of the rubber as it stretches when inflated. But anyway, balloon helium is quite pure, it's typically "Class 4" or "four nines" so 99.99% pure. At the local gas supply place, balloon grade and the stuff used for welding shielding gas are the same thing. While a lower purity might be fine for balloons, it presumably isn't worth it to them to either dilute it with cheaper gas or maintain separate product lines.
    - dreamcompiler 8y ago
      Welder here. I don't buy helium for welding any more because it's too expensive; most welders use argon nowadays. But in any case the whole point of using inert gases in welding is to keep oxygen away from the hot metal. If welding-grade helium tanks contained any significant amount of oxygen they would defeat the whole purpose. And yes, for filling balloons, you just buy a tank of welding helium and screw a special balloon regulator onto the outlet port. The gas is identical. Makes you talk in a squeaky-high voice if you breathe a little of it; kills you dead if you breathe a lot of it. (Edit: I know somebody is going to ask why it kills you. Helium is not toxic, but it suffocates you if you breathe a lot of it without a break for -- you know -- real air.)
Jun8 8y ago
Good summary. For those who want to learn more, here's a more in-depth reply to the "Are running out of Helium?" questions. I'll just quote the definition that he uses, which in itself sheds light to teh matter: "a mineral reserve is that amount of some mineral that we have identified the location of, weighed, measured, tested the extraction of and proven (and the proof is the extremely important part here) that we can, with current technology, and at current prices, make a profit by extracting it." Perhaps a loose analogy would be with TAM/SAM/SOM.
physicsyogi 8y ago
There's also the isotope Helium-3, which is far more scarce than Helium-4 and is rapidly running out. It's used to detect radiation and to reach ultralow temperatures in low-temperature physics research and medical cryogenics. It's scarcity has been a national security concern.
InclinedPlane 8y ago
This is almost entirely incorrect. Helium is generally not extracted from the atmosphere, it comes as a byproduct of mining natural gas (the same conditions that trap natural gas underground also traps noble gases produced by radioactive decay, Helium (being just a neutralized alpha particle) is a very common product of such decay and so abundant in natural gas deposits, but it requires special equipment to trap it). Historically the US has excelled at Helium production due to its natural gas infrastructure, and it has created a national strategic Helium reserve to maintain stocks of the gas just in case. However, the government has decided to sell of much of that reserve in recent years, lowering the price of Helium to artificial levels and destroying the natural economic incentives that would exist to produce and conserve Helium.

deleted 8y ago

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nradov 8y ago

No there's really only one kind of helium, with varying levels of purity. Even balloon helium is usually almost 100% pure. Helium is never extracted from the air; there isn't enough of it there to be practical. We get it as a byproduct of natural gas extraction.

saagarjha 8y ago
Isn’t balloon helium mixed with oxygen so that children don’t suffocate inhaling it?
- nradov 8y ago
  That has been tried occasionally but it isn't common. Suffocation isn't a real risk since once you pass out you'll drop the balloon and breathe air again, although if you're standing up you might fall and hurt yourself. Most retail gas suppliers prefer to sell only pure gasses. If they have to do custom mixing it requires extra processing steps for blending and analysis, plus they're taking on additional liability. So you can probably get heliox if you ask, but you'll pay more for it. Gas suppliers keep all their helium in one big set of storage tanks. The only real difference between various helium grades they sell is how careful they are about pulling a vacuum on your cylinder before filling it.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    By "balloon helium" I assumed you were talking about those little tanks that you can buy in party stores to fill up your balloons, not gas suppliers.
- Kadin 8y ago
  Nope. The stuff you can get from party stores (in the US, anyway) definitely isn't; more than one person that I have heard of has committed suicide with it.
  - miles 8y ago
    >> Isn’t balloon helium mixed with oxygen so that children don’t suffocate inhaling it? > Nope. The stuff you can get from party stores (in the US, anyway) definitely isn't; more than one person that I have heard of has committed suicide with it. Apparently, ballon helium is now often mixed with air in the US: Where can a person obtain ‘pure’ helium? http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2015/07/11/where-can-a-person-obtain-pure-helium/ http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2015/07/11/where-can-a-person... Unfortunately I missed the warning about the change in helium tanks that will now include oxygen. Ballon Time FAQ https://www.balloontime.com/contact-us/faqs/ https://www.balloontime.com/contact-us/faqs/ Our helium is rated from 98-99.99 percent pure. However, due to global helium supply issues, we are now mixing helium with air. All tanks will have 80 percent or more helium.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ars 8y ago
> Even balloon helium is usually almost 100% pure Are you sure? I ask, because latex helium filled balloons slowly lose air as the helium leaks out - but after some time they stop, and stay a fixed size. But they don't float when they reach that point! If it were pure helium, wouldn't a: all the helium leak out, and b: still float if for whatever reason the helium did not leak? Personally I suspect helium balloons have just enough helium to float when full and the rest is regular air.
- nradov 8y ago
  Regardless of helium supply issues we should ban the use of helium party balloons due to severe environmental impact. https://www.zoo.org.au/get-involved/act-for-wildlife/balloons https://www.zoo.org.au/get-involved/act-for-wildlife/balloon...
- androidgirl 8y ago
  I imagine the latex of the balloon has a lower rate of loss as stretching decreases. As it deflates, the relative weight of the balloon vs helium also goes up.
- Kadin 8y ago
  Latex balloons deflate due to helium permeating the latex. IIRC this is proportional to the difference in pressure between the inside and outside of the balloon. (Because the rate is proportional to the difference in pressure.) The balloon isn't going to deflate completely; eventually the pressure on the inside and outside will equilibrate. The balloon doesn't return to its original pre-inflated size because, I suspect, of some amount of irreversible deformation of the rubber as it stretches when inflated. But anyway, balloon helium is quite pure, it's typically "Class 4" or "four nines" so 99.99% pure. At the local gas supply place, balloon grade and the stuff used for welding shielding gas are the same thing. While a lower purity might be fine for balloons, it presumably isn't worth it to them to either dilute it with cheaper gas or maintain separate product lines.
  - dreamcompiler 8y ago
    Welder here. I don't buy helium for welding any more because it's too expensive; most welders use argon nowadays. But in any case the whole point of using inert gases in welding is to keep oxygen away from the hot metal. If welding-grade helium tanks contained any significant amount of oxygen they would defeat the whole purpose. And yes, for filling balloons, you just buy a tank of welding helium and screw a special balloon regulator onto the outlet port. The gas is identical. Makes you talk in a squeaky-high voice if you breathe a little of it; kills you dead if you breathe a lot of it. (Edit: I know somebody is going to ask why it kills you. Helium is not toxic, but it suffocates you if you breathe a lot of it without a break for -- you know -- real air.)

Jun8 8y ago

Good summary. For those who want to learn more, here's a more in-depth reply to the "Are running out of Helium?" questions. I'll just quote the definition that he uses, which in itself sheds light to teh matter: "a mineral reserve is that amount of some mineral that we have identified the location of, weighed, measured, tested the extraction of and proven (and the proof is the extremely important part here) that we can, with current technology, and at current prices, make a profit by extracting it." Perhaps a loose analogy would be with TAM/SAM/SOM.

physicsyogi 8y ago

There's also the isotope Helium-3, which is far more scarce than Helium-4 and is rapidly running out. It's used to detect radiation and to reach ultralow temperatures in low-temperature physics research and medical cryogenics. It's scarcity has been a national security concern.

InclinedPlane 8y ago

This is almost entirely incorrect. Helium is generally not extracted from the atmosphere, it comes as a byproduct of mining natural gas (the same conditions that trap natural gas underground also traps noble gases produced by radioactive decay, Helium (being just a neutralized alpha particle) is a very common product of such decay and so abundant in natural gas deposits, but it requires special equipment to trap it). Historically the US has excelled at Helium production due to its natural gas infrastructure, and it has created a national strategic Helium reserve to maintain stocks of the gas just in case. However, the government has decided to sell of much of that reserve in recent years, lowering the price of Helium to artificial levels and destroying the natural economic incentives that would exist to produce and conserve Helium.