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As someone who attempts to follow the letter of the law, I experience quite a few incidents of aggressive driving. The complaints here are really just demonstra

As someone who attempts to follow the letter of the law, I experience quite a few incidents of aggressive driving. The complaints here are really just demonstrating how bad humans are at driving - the frustration probably arises due to the fact that they are unable to intimidate the driver in front of them with aggressive behavior. > One woman said that she almost hit one of the company's minivans because it suddenly stopped while trying to make a right turn By following the correct speed limit and following distance, you will have ample time to react to any silly behavior. Not that I for one second believe that a self-driving car would make a sudden stop in order to make a predetermined turn.

mulletbum 8y ago
>Not that I for one second believe that a self-driving car would make a sudden stop in order to make a predetermined turn. Did you really mean this or is it sarcasm?
jclardy 8y ago
My first thought when reading the "suddenly stopped" quote is that it was probably at a stop light or sign, and the car actually stopped as directed by the law, then proceeded to move forward to turn, versus the progressive rolling stop that nearly everyone does.
rhacker 8y ago
This is the truth here. I also try to follow the letter of the law. I always assume that a brick wall may suddenly shoot up in front of the car in front of me, stopping it instantly and killing everyone in it. So following closer than the recommended distance, is idiotic. How often will a brick wall shoot up in front of a car like life is a video game? Probably a really low percentage, but cats, deer, blown tires, trailers falling off, jackknifing trucks - all can have similar effects. Even knowing my car may get the brick wall, which I can't avoid, I can at least do the best I can to avoid someone else's. Google's challenge however, is that we are in a very very small minority.
- camjohnson26 8y ago
  You're a minority because following the letter of the law isn't always the safe decision. It's illegal to cross the double yellow lines, but if a car is pulled over on the shoulder then I'll cross the lines to give them more space. It's illegal but it increases safety for me and them.
  - rhacker 8y ago
    I do safe, illegal things too, so good point in mentioning this. I should have clarified that I was mostly talking about speed limits, tailgaiting etc.. I was just picking up the above poster's phrase. I don't think I could accurately sum up my driving style in a phrase, but that's probably the best short way to do it.
    - zamalek 8y ago
      Agreed, I definitely do illegal things - especially when there are cyclists on the road.
      - solarkraft 8y ago
        Uh, you run them over?
        zamalek 8y ago
        I cross solid yellow lines to give them more room than the law asks you to.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    It's illegal to cross the double yellow lines No, that's just boolean programmer-think. I my state, at least, the law makes specific exceptions for things like this. Maybe the cars would do better if they were vetted against lawyers and not debuggers.
snowwrestler 8y ago
Why do you attempt to follow the letter of the law? Not even traffic officers follow the letter of the law; it's rare to get pulled over for going 60mph in a 55mph zone, for example. Do you ever find yourself on a road getting passed by all the other cars? Isn't that annoying? Why not just speed up a few mph and join the herd? I'm honestly asking; I just do not get the appeal.
- kthejoker2 8y ago
  If I planned my trip accordingly, I find few reasons to arrive somewhere too early. You just enter into hurry up and wait mode.
- zamalek 8y ago
  > Why do you attempt to follow the letter of the law? Cars are objects that have an extreme amount of kinetic energy. The point isn't to avoid getting pulled over, the point is to avoid dying or killing. > 60mph in a 55mph Air resistance increases at a squared rate. The amount of fuel you use (and your emissions) is not linearly associated with your speed. So does your kinetic energy. Going at 25, 5 over is not the same as going at 55, 5 over. > Do you ever find yourself on a road getting passed by all the other cars? Isn't that annoying? All the time, but it's not annoying because I don't care about being in front of everyone - I have left for my destination with ample time to make my appointment. I'm on the road to reach a destination, not to win the race. I don't care if people cut in front of me, because I have chosen not to and give them the safe room to do so. Driving aggressively is stressful, you [not specifically you] are fighting with everyone else on the road. You're going to risk your health in order to be directly ahead of me at a red traffic light two minutes later? I'll just pull to the right and give you room to pull in front of me. I try my best to get out of the way of aggressive driving; the further those drivers are away from me, the better. In those two minutes where you've [again, generalized "you"] been racing everyone else on the road, I've probably let someone in front of me - saving them minutes and costing me seconds (before the next traffic light equalization). I feel good about myself, you are in the throws of fight or flight. The only appeal of courteous driving is that there is less than an appeal to aggressive driving. The only way to win is not to play.
alasdair_ 8y ago
>By following the correct speed limit and following distance, you will have ample time to react to any silly behavior. The problem is that in heavy traffic (e.g. middle of many large cities at 5pm), it's not actually possible to both follow the law and actually make progress towards your destination in a given hour. One example: Try to make a left turn in gridlocked traffic. You're supposed to avoid moving across an intersection until there is enough room for your vehicle, so that if a light changes, you will not block traffic. The problem is that in rush hour traffic, if you actually do that, you will sit there for an hour or more as other cars see the gap and take a right turn, never giving you a spot to turn into.
x3n0ph3n3 8y ago
> The complaints here are really just demonstrating how bad humans are at driving Or that the letter of the law is not a useful abstraction for how systems optimally perform.

mulletbum 8y ago

>Not that I for one second believe that a self-driving car would make a sudden stop in order to make a predetermined turn. Did you really mean this or is it sarcasm?

jclardy 8y ago

My first thought when reading the "suddenly stopped" quote is that it was probably at a stop light or sign, and the car actually stopped as directed by the law, then proceeded to move forward to turn, versus the progressive rolling stop that nearly everyone does.

rhacker 8y ago

This is the truth here. I also try to follow the letter of the law. I always assume that a brick wall may suddenly shoot up in front of the car in front of me, stopping it instantly and killing everyone in it. So following closer than the recommended distance, is idiotic. How often will a brick wall shoot up in front of a car like life is a video game? Probably a really low percentage, but cats, deer, blown tires, trailers falling off, jackknifing trucks - all can have similar effects. Even knowing my car may get the brick wall, which I can't avoid, I can at least do the best I can to avoid someone else's. Google's challenge however, is that we are in a very very small minority.

camjohnson26 8y ago
You're a minority because following the letter of the law isn't always the safe decision. It's illegal to cross the double yellow lines, but if a car is pulled over on the shoulder then I'll cross the lines to give them more space. It's illegal but it increases safety for me and them.
- rhacker 8y ago
  I do safe, illegal things too, so good point in mentioning this. I should have clarified that I was mostly talking about speed limits, tailgaiting etc.. I was just picking up the above poster's phrase. I don't think I could accurately sum up my driving style in a phrase, but that's probably the best short way to do it.
  - zamalek 8y ago
    Agreed, I definitely do illegal things - especially when there are cyclists on the road.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      Uh, you run them over?
      - zamalek 8y ago
        I cross solid yellow lines to give them more room than the law asks you to.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  It's illegal to cross the double yellow lines No, that's just boolean programmer-think. I my state, at least, the law makes specific exceptions for things like this. Maybe the cars would do better if they were vetted against lawyers and not debuggers.

snowwrestler 8y ago

Why do you attempt to follow the letter of the law? Not even traffic officers follow the letter of the law; it's rare to get pulled over for going 60mph in a 55mph zone, for example. Do you ever find yourself on a road getting passed by all the other cars? Isn't that annoying? Why not just speed up a few mph and join the herd? I'm honestly asking; I just do not get the appeal.

kthejoker2 8y ago
If I planned my trip accordingly, I find few reasons to arrive somewhere too early. You just enter into hurry up and wait mode.
zamalek 8y ago
> Why do you attempt to follow the letter of the law? Cars are objects that have an extreme amount of kinetic energy. The point isn't to avoid getting pulled over, the point is to avoid dying or killing. > 60mph in a 55mph Air resistance increases at a squared rate. The amount of fuel you use (and your emissions) is not linearly associated with your speed. So does your kinetic energy. Going at 25, 5 over is not the same as going at 55, 5 over. > Do you ever find yourself on a road getting passed by all the other cars? Isn't that annoying? All the time, but it's not annoying because I don't care about being in front of everyone - I have left for my destination with ample time to make my appointment. I'm on the road to reach a destination, not to win the race. I don't care if people cut in front of me, because I have chosen not to and give them the safe room to do so. Driving aggressively is stressful, you [not specifically you] are fighting with everyone else on the road. You're going to risk your health in order to be directly ahead of me at a red traffic light two minutes later? I'll just pull to the right and give you room to pull in front of me. I try my best to get out of the way of aggressive driving; the further those drivers are away from me, the better. In those two minutes where you've [again, generalized "you"] been racing everyone else on the road, I've probably let someone in front of me - saving them minutes and costing me seconds (before the next traffic light equalization). I feel good about myself, you are in the throws of fight or flight. The only appeal of courteous driving is that there is less than an appeal to aggressive driving. The only way to win is not to play.

alasdair_ 8y ago

>By following the correct speed limit and following distance, you will have ample time to react to any silly behavior. The problem is that in heavy traffic (e.g. middle of many large cities at 5pm), it's not actually possible to both follow the law and actually make progress towards your destination in a given hour. One example: Try to make a left turn in gridlocked traffic. You're supposed to avoid moving across an intersection until there is enough room for your vehicle, so that if a light changes, you will not block traffic. The problem is that in rush hour traffic, if you actually do that, you will sit there for an hour or more as other cars see the gap and take a right turn, never giving you a spot to turn into.

x3n0ph3n3 8y ago

> The complaints here are really just demonstrating how bad humans are at driving Or that the letter of the law is not a useful abstraction for how systems optimally perform.