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I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every st

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

grenoire 8y ago
Get off the red paths and we're good. Jokes (?) aside, I don't think that's because of the cyclist profile but more about the people in the Netherlands in general. People are just not in a rush.
- GijsjanB 8y ago
  Cycling fast in the city centre is just too dangerous. The (big) city centres are small and crowded. Cycling really fast would result in grave accidents. Cycling for exercise is almost exclusively done outside the cities. Another reason to keep the pace down when commuting, is to minimize sweating.
sbradford26 8y ago
I would say that is because in the US only the people most into biking use their bikes to commute. They have to want to bike enough to put up with no bike lanes and such. This attracts people who want to ride fast, there is also very little community to hold each other accountable for riding like that.
- jchanimal 8y ago
  It also feels safer to be going closer to car speed
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    It feels safer because it is safer. Having to be aware of traffic that's moving at a substantially different speed than one's self is extra cognitive load that benefits neither the fast or slow traffic. Humans have a finite amount of attention they can give to what they're doing. This applies to kayaks and boats as much as it does to bikes and cars. This is just a
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      That is mainly because, in the US, most bike lanes are not separate from the road, but just a painted line on the road.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
merpnderp 8y ago
I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.
- nrki 8y ago
  45mph is a heck of an achievement, that's near my top speed down a 10% gradient!
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  What an arrogant view. What danger were you in, almost getting hit by something with 4% your total mass, surrounded by airbags? Yes, that cyclist really deserves to die for scaring you like that.
  - gamegoblin 8y ago
    I don't believe OP suggested that the cyclist deserves to die, but rather if the cyclist continues that behavior, the cyclist will die in a cycling accident.
  - merpnderp 8y ago
    Maybe you don’t mind being in wrecks where people are significantly injured. But I do mind if some poor misguided soul splatters themselves on the side of my truck. I almost gunned it to get out of his way, but thankfully noticed the pedestrians in front of me.
- Karrot_Kream 8y ago
  This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph. 1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-france-riders-in-mph/ http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...
brianwawok 8y ago
I race triathlons. Bike commutes are a bonus chance to get some miles. Cruising at 14 mph does nothing for my fitness level. (all except the graze pedestrian part, I try to avoid that).
electricslpnsld 8y ago
> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. Eh, I think it depends where you go in the US. When living in Portland I couldn't afford a car and so I biked exclusively, and people were super mellow. Cyclists would even gently chide other cyclists for running red lights, failing to signal, not having lights, etc.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
That's how you have to ride to survive in car-centric America. You need to assume every car at an intersection has an incentive to hit you and run lights/stop signs to get distance and maintain speed. I'm a pretty normal cyclist most of the time but after several "Pittsburgh left" collisions at intersections I'm fighting for my life.
- btrettel 8y ago
  Strongly disagree. I've heard this argument before. I'm a cyclist and my experience with cyclists who run red lights is that the majority (if not the vast majority) ride so slowly that I can still pass them after they've run a red that I did not run without too much effort. So I doubt that you gain much distance. Plus, the credibility hit that ALL cyclists take for this alone makes this not worthwhile in my view. Cyclists who respect the law like myself get blamed for the actions of bad cyclists. I've often wondered if this contributes to bad driving around cyclists, e.g., "punishment passes".
  - BlackFly 8y ago
    > I've often wondered if this contributes to bad driving around cyclists, e.g., "punishment passes". Of course it does, just like the few drivers who cavalierly pass a cyclist then make a right hand turn in front of them causing a collision or near collision contributes to cyclist animosity towards all drivers. The only thing unforgivable to most people is the proof that the people around us are humans and not robots: they make mistakes, they change their mind, they break the rules. The point of these articles is to point out that creating the infrastructure properly eases most of the tension. Treating a bicycle as a separate form of transportation is better than treating them like a vehicle in most scenarios and making some limited exceptions for passing or driving on the sidewalk.
    - btrettel 8y ago
      > The point of these articles is to point out that creating the infrastructure properly eases most of the tension. I'm not sure it's mainly an infrastructure problem. In my experience, US style infrastructure tends to amplify conflicts at intersections. The right hooks you mention become a lot more common, sometimes to the point where I refuse to use a particular facility solely because of this. But, it does make many newbie cyclists feel safer, which is important. Ultimately I think we need a combination of the intersection protection measures mentioned in the article and also driver education to solve this problem.
btrettel 8y ago
> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... Seems like a pretty biased sample to me. I'm a cyclist, and the vast majority of cyclists I know respect the law and common sense. Yes, there are jerks out there, but they'd most likely still be jerks if they switched to driving. It's possible that my own sample of cycling friends is biased too, but few cyclists I see on the road are as bad as phil248 described. And the worst drivers I see on the road are considerably more dangerous than the worst cyclists, by a long shot.
IkmoIkmo 8y ago
Traffic works quite the same for cars as it does for bikes in that from 8-9 and around 6 you have a huge number of cyclists rushing to and from work, school etc, and it can get pretty crazy. You don't really experience that as a tourist who leaves the hotel around 10 and is walking around for a restaurant around 7. Your experience does exist but it's not always like that. But there's also a lot of infrastructure to support the mellowness. Dedicated cycling lanes on both sides, priority around traffic lights, under/overpasses to reduce stops, flat roads and dense urban centres (with decent public transportation for larger distances) makes it easy to get to your destination quickly without having to race or compete for space. That certainly helps.
nomercy400 8y ago
Being in the way is also very rare. You'd be amazed how we can cycle around you without you even feeling bothered. Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists. The best way to be in traffic is to not stand out. Whether it is car, cyclist or pedestrian. Just don't bother other people.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  > Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists. And tourists, who wander onto the bike lanes without realizing it. Mind you there's a lot of cramped and busy areas where it's far too easy to do so. If you visit Amsterdam, look at the ground, stay off the red pavement unless you intend to cross it, in which case you look both ways and do a firm walk across it.
  - jvannistelrooy 8y ago
    Indeed, riding through city center Amsterdam without a bell is suicide. Foreign pedestrians don't really look out for cyclists when they cross a street.
rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
It's so dangerous to ride bikes in cities nowadays that that only the most dangerous bikers dare to ride. If we had the infrastructures to protect the non-racers, you would have non-racers on the road and would feel like that the vast majority of bikers are mellow.

grenoire 8y ago

Get off the red paths and we're good. Jokes (?) aside, I don't think that's because of the cyclist profile but more about the people in the Netherlands in general. People are just not in a rush.

GijsjanB 8y ago
Cycling fast in the city centre is just too dangerous. The (big) city centres are small and crowded. Cycling really fast would result in grave accidents. Cycling for exercise is almost exclusively done outside the cities. Another reason to keep the pace down when commuting, is to minimize sweating.

sbradford26 8y ago

I would say that is because in the US only the people most into biking use their bikes to commute. They have to want to bike enough to put up with no bike lanes and such. This attracts people who want to ride fast, there is also very little community to hold each other accountable for riding like that.

jchanimal 8y ago
It also feels safer to be going closer to car speed
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  It feels safer because it is safer. Having to be aware of traffic that's moving at a substantially different speed than one's self is extra cognitive load that benefits neither the fast or slow traffic. Humans have a finite amount of attention they can give to what they're doing. This applies to kayaks and boats as much as it does to bikes and cars. This is just a
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    That is mainly because, in the US, most bike lanes are not separate from the road, but just a painted line on the road.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

merpnderp 8y ago

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

nrki 8y ago
45mph is a heck of an achievement, that's near my top speed down a 10% gradient!
PascLeRasc 8y ago
What an arrogant view. What danger were you in, almost getting hit by something with 4% your total mass, surrounded by airbags? Yes, that cyclist really deserves to die for scaring you like that.
- gamegoblin 8y ago
  I don't believe OP suggested that the cyclist deserves to die, but rather if the cyclist continues that behavior, the cyclist will die in a cycling accident.
- merpnderp 8y ago
  Maybe you don’t mind being in wrecks where people are significantly injured. But I do mind if some poor misguided soul splatters themselves on the side of my truck. I almost gunned it to get out of his way, but thankfully noticed the pedestrians in front of me.
Karrot_Kream 8y ago
This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph. 1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-france-riders-in-mph/ http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...

brianwawok 8y ago

I race triathlons. Bike commutes are a bonus chance to get some miles. Cruising at 14 mph does nothing for my fitness level. (all except the graze pedestrian part, I try to avoid that).

electricslpnsld 8y ago

> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. Eh, I think it depends where you go in the US. When living in Portland I couldn't afford a car and so I biked exclusively, and people were super mellow. Cyclists would even gently chide other cyclists for running red lights, failing to signal, not having lights, etc.

PascLeRasc 8y ago

That's how you have to ride to survive in car-centric America. You need to assume every car at an intersection has an incentive to hit you and run lights/stop signs to get distance and maintain speed. I'm a pretty normal cyclist most of the time but after several "Pittsburgh left" collisions at intersections I'm fighting for my life.

btrettel 8y ago
Strongly disagree. I've heard this argument before. I'm a cyclist and my experience with cyclists who run red lights is that the majority (if not the vast majority) ride so slowly that I can still pass them after they've run a red that I did not run without too much effort. So I doubt that you gain much distance. Plus, the credibility hit that ALL cyclists take for this alone makes this not worthwhile in my view. Cyclists who respect the law like myself get blamed for the actions of bad cyclists. I've often wondered if this contributes to bad driving around cyclists, e.g., "punishment passes".
- BlackFly 8y ago
  > I've often wondered if this contributes to bad driving around cyclists, e.g., "punishment passes". Of course it does, just like the few drivers who cavalierly pass a cyclist then make a right hand turn in front of them causing a collision or near collision contributes to cyclist animosity towards all drivers. The only thing unforgivable to most people is the proof that the people around us are humans and not robots: they make mistakes, they change their mind, they break the rules. The point of these articles is to point out that creating the infrastructure properly eases most of the tension. Treating a bicycle as a separate form of transportation is better than treating them like a vehicle in most scenarios and making some limited exceptions for passing or driving on the sidewalk.
  - btrettel 8y ago
    > The point of these articles is to point out that creating the infrastructure properly eases most of the tension. I'm not sure it's mainly an infrastructure problem. In my experience, US style infrastructure tends to amplify conflicts at intersections. The right hooks you mention become a lot more common, sometimes to the point where I refuse to use a particular facility solely because of this. But, it does make many newbie cyclists feel safer, which is important. Ultimately I think we need a combination of the intersection protection measures mentioned in the article and also driver education to solve this problem.

btrettel 8y ago

> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... Seems like a pretty biased sample to me. I'm a cyclist, and the vast majority of cyclists I know respect the law and common sense. Yes, there are jerks out there, but they'd most likely still be jerks if they switched to driving. It's possible that my own sample of cycling friends is biased too, but few cyclists I see on the road are as bad as phil248 described. And the worst drivers I see on the road are considerably more dangerous than the worst cyclists, by a long shot.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago

Traffic works quite the same for cars as it does for bikes in that from 8-9 and around 6 you have a huge number of cyclists rushing to and from work, school etc, and it can get pretty crazy. You don't really experience that as a tourist who leaves the hotel around 10 and is walking around for a restaurant around 7. Your experience does exist but it's not always like that. But there's also a lot of infrastructure to support the mellowness. Dedicated cycling lanes on both sides, priority around traffic lights, under/overpasses to reduce stops, flat roads and dense urban centres (with decent public transportation for larger distances) makes it easy to get to your destination quickly without having to race or compete for space. That certainly helps.

nomercy400 8y ago

Being in the way is also very rare. You'd be amazed how we can cycle around you without you even feeling bothered. Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists. The best way to be in traffic is to not stand out. Whether it is car, cyclist or pedestrian. Just don't bother other people.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
> Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists. And tourists, who wander onto the bike lanes without realizing it. Mind you there's a lot of cramped and busy areas where it's far too easy to do so. If you visit Amsterdam, look at the ground, stay off the red pavement unless you intend to cross it, in which case you look both ways and do a firm walk across it.
- jvannistelrooy 8y ago
  Indeed, riding through city center Amsterdam without a bell is suicide. Foreign pedestrians don't really look out for cyclists when they cross a street.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

It's so dangerous to ride bikes in cities nowadays that that only the most dangerous bikers dare to ride. If we had the infrastructures to protect the non-racers, you would have non-racers on the road and would feel like that the vast majority of bikers are mellow.