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> 2) total blocking of genuine and constructive user feedback, which feels like censorship - or simply a closed-source, proprietary software. For those looking

> 2) total blocking of genuine and constructive user feedback, which feels like censorship - or simply a closed-source, proprietary software. For those looking for examples, check out the recent post on /r/elm: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... It was locked and deleted from the front page within hours. There are many many more such posts that have been deleted. The only posts allowed on /r/elm are those praising Elm. They always invite the users to discuss this in the Elm Discourse which is not constructive because threads about the "forbidden" topics (Native Code) are either locked or completely deleted within hours.

dsissitka 8y ago
You can use Ceddit to see the comments the moderators removed: https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/ https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u...
skybrian 8y ago
I'm not that concerned that /r/elm is tightly moderated, given that there are other places to discuss it. (Such as here.)
rtfeldman 8y ago
> The only posts allowed on /r/elm are those praising Elm. The Reddit thread you linked shows many posts that are critical of Elm, so this can't be the explanation. As others have noted, you can see what was deleted using this link: https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/ https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... Removed posts included both praise and criticism. What they have in common is that they broke other rules, e.g. personal attacks.
- throwaway237468 8y ago
  Thanks, I'll let everyone decide for themselves whether the deleted posts were personal attacks or not. Personally I don't see anything wrong with at least half of them. Why do the moderators invite everyone to discuss on Discourse when you know you'll delete or lock a thread as soon as it's posted?
  - rtfeldman 8y ago
    > Thanks, I'll let everyone decide for themselves whether the deleted posts were personal attacks or not. Personally I don't see anything wrong with at least half of them. Okay, but "personally I would have only deleted half of those posts" is a much different claim than "The only posts allowed on /r/elm are those praising Elm," which is what you said above. You really shouldn't make such serious claims if you don't mean them. > Why do the moderators invite everyone to discuss on Discourse when you know you'll delete or lock a thread as soon as it's posted? I understand that you're trolling me, but just for the record - of course we don't do that.
    - wolco 8y ago
      From what I understood: 10 posts have been deleted. 5 of them are obvious racist/spam. 5 of them are anti elm. All anti Elm threads get deleted regardless of how much spam is also deleted
      - rtfeldman 8y ago
        > All anti Elm threads get deleted regardless of how much spam is also deleted From the same thread, here are several posts that are strongly critical of Elm: 1. @Sagan_on_Roids explains what he disliked about Elm and why he stopped using it: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4rwphk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 2. @eriklott agrees with the criticisms of the OP, and explains what he did after leaving Elm: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4ryggd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 3. @KittensInc curses about the state of websockets on Elm 0.19's release: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4rvyrq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 4. @HelloAnyong questions why anyone would ever use Elm given its breaking changes: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4sdraq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... It's debatable whether some of the deleted posts were or weren't over the line, but it can't possibly be true that Elm mods are deleting all content that is critical of Elm. Critical content is all over that thread, plain as daylight.
- leshow 8y ago
  The post itself was removed by moderators and locked for nothing more than being critical of Elm.
  - rtfeldman 8y ago
    > locked for nothing more than being critical of Elm. Why do you say that? (There was a long note explaining why it was locked.)
    - Touche 8y ago
      Total ousider here. The reason given for locking it are just points of disagreement with the article. The reason doesn't point to anything within the article that is against the subreddits rules.
      - rtfeldman 8y ago
        Oh, I saw those as referring to the thread itself (e.g. the deleted posts). Hm.
- detaro 8y ago
  I don't think that's an entirely fair argument (although I agree that at some of these comments are easily justified for removal). Yes, there's still critical comments... In a thread that was completely hidden from the subreddit. So the worst comments were deleted, and everything else, including the link to the blog post, hidden, and the existing participants stopped from continuing their discussion. Technically not being deleted is a small step.
senorsmile 8y ago
Ah yes. That was the thread I started and was locked. I was and still am confused.

dsissitka 8y ago

You can use Ceddit to see the comments the moderators removed: https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/ https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u...

skybrian 8y ago

I'm not that concerned that /r/elm is tightly moderated, given that there are other places to discuss it. (Such as here.)

rtfeldman 8y ago

> The only posts allowed on /r/elm are those praising Elm. The Reddit thread you linked shows many posts that are critical of Elm, so this can't be the explanation. As others have noted, you can see what was deleted using this link: https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/ https://snew.github.io/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... Removed posts included both praise and criticism. What they have in common is that they broke other rules, e.g. personal attacks.

throwaway237468 8y ago
Thanks, I'll let everyone decide for themselves whether the deleted posts were personal attacks or not. Personally I don't see anything wrong with at least half of them. Why do the moderators invite everyone to discuss on Discourse when you know you'll delete or lock a thread as soon as it's posted?
- rtfeldman 8y ago
  > Thanks, I'll let everyone decide for themselves whether the deleted posts were personal attacks or not. Personally I don't see anything wrong with at least half of them. Okay, but "personally I would have only deleted half of those posts" is a much different claim than "The only posts allowed on /r/elm are those praising Elm," which is what you said above. You really shouldn't make such serious claims if you don't mean them. > Why do the moderators invite everyone to discuss on Discourse when you know you'll delete or lock a thread as soon as it's posted? I understand that you're trolling me, but just for the record - of course we don't do that.
  - wolco 8y ago
    From what I understood: 10 posts have been deleted. 5 of them are obvious racist/spam. 5 of them are anti elm. All anti Elm threads get deleted regardless of how much spam is also deleted
    - rtfeldman 8y ago
      > All anti Elm threads get deleted regardless of how much spam is also deleted From the same thread, here are several posts that are strongly critical of Elm: 1. @Sagan_on_Roids explains what he disliked about Elm and why he stopped using it: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4rwphk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 2. @eriklott agrees with the criticisms of the OP, and explains what he did after leaving Elm: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4ryggd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 3. @KittensInc curses about the state of websockets on Elm 0.19's release: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4rvyrq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... 4. @HelloAnyong questions why anyone would ever use Elm given its breaking changes: https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_us/e4sdraq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/elm/comments/9a0hc6/elm_019_broke_u... It's debatable whether some of the deleted posts were or weren't over the line, but it can't possibly be true that Elm mods are deleting all content that is critical of Elm. Critical content is all over that thread, plain as daylight.
leshow 8y ago
The post itself was removed by moderators and locked for nothing more than being critical of Elm.
- rtfeldman 8y ago
  > locked for nothing more than being critical of Elm. Why do you say that? (There was a long note explaining why it was locked.)
  - Touche 8y ago
    Total ousider here. The reason given for locking it are just points of disagreement with the article. The reason doesn't point to anything within the article that is against the subreddits rules.
    - rtfeldman 8y ago
      Oh, I saw those as referring to the thread itself (e.g. the deleted posts). Hm.
detaro 8y ago
I don't think that's an entirely fair argument (although I agree that at some of these comments are easily justified for removal). Yes, there's still critical comments... In a thread that was completely hidden from the subreddit. So the worst comments were deleted, and everything else, including the link to the blog post, hidden, and the existing participants stopped from continuing their discussion. Technically not being deleted is a small step.

senorsmile 8y ago

Ah yes. That was the thread I started and was locked. I was and still am confused.