5 ms·

21 year old black mothers are likely to be unmarried without college degrees. 21 year old white mothers are likely to be married and are likely to hold or somed

by fipple 8y ago

21 year old black mothers are likely to be unmarried without college degrees. 21 year old white mothers are likely to be married and are likely to hold or someday hold a college degree. They’re two entirely different populations and scenarios which get jumbled together when you average them. Its like if you asked “what’s the average height of the most popular American Olympic athletes?” And found that the answer is 5 foot 6. Huh, they’re just like us? No, the gymnasts are 4 foot 8 and the swimmers are 6 foot 4.

bilbo0s 8y ago
??? That's still a bit confusing. Maybe I'm being dense, but one chart is for women with college degrees having babies and the other is for women without college degrees having babies. So what impact would race have on when a woman with a college degree has a baby? (I mean, whether they are married or not is presumably irrelevant to the question of whether they have a college degree. So why would race not be irrelevant to that question?) My question is the similar for the graph of married vs unmarried? If you are married and having a baby, (I mean, unless I'm missing something?), you are married and having a baby. Why would your race change that fact?
- danielvf 8y ago
  [edit: probably wrong, see below] Great question. If married/college were the only relevant factors, it would not matter. However, there are cultural differences beyond just those. Black women in the US do go to college at approximately the same rate as the rest of the US population, however they are far less likely to study STEM subjects, nor go to graduate school school, and are more likely to be going to a lower tier of school. Also, even college educated black women are far less likely to be married or in long term relationships.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    ??? But the charts are not counting women who have college degrees AND are married. The chart is a count of women who have college degrees and had their first child. So whether or not a college educated black or hispanic woman is married, is totally irrelevant to that question. I'm starting to think that, perhaps, you have misread the graphs? These are not graphs of women who are college educated AND married. These are graphs of women who are college educated. And then there is another set of graphs for women who are married. With both factors isolated to get a true picture of what's going on.
    - danielvf 8y ago
      You are correct, I was misreading the graphs - I'll have to rethink things!
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- timr 8y ago
  You're not confused. The parent to this subthread is introducing race as an unnecessary/unsupported factor: the belt of low-age births is simply the bible belt. You don't need to "subtract" race from it (nor can you; it's not clear how you'd map race to birth age without a chart explicitly making the comparison). This whole subthread is a non-sequitur. You can see the pattern in every map except the unmarried, no-college degree map (which is almost entirely in the lowest bin on the histogram).
jessaustin 8y ago
Do you know any 21yo white mothers? None of the ones I know are married. A co-worker informed me she was "getting divorced" this morning, but of course since she isn't married in the first place this amounts to the two families of "in-laws" coming to an understanding concerning visitation and support. They're smart enough to avoid the courts if they can...
- fipple 8y ago
  Sorry, I don't try to reason based on anecdata about who I know. Slicing by marital status, age, AND race is hard to get but you can get each pair of two from this report and triangulate: http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/754-new-demography-of-motherhood.pdf http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/201...
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    No, you can't "triangulate" from the contents of that report. Even the table entitled "Births by Age, Race, Ethnicity and Marital Status of Mother" just lists three time series without demonstrating how the different series interact. Do you want to assume that all the unmarried women are nonwhite, so that will "prove" all the white women are married? It's remarkable, that you don't "reason based on anecdata" but you were happy to kick off the thread with some racist assumptions. Go ahead, show us some "data" about all those 20yo white women who are just taking some time off from their college careers to work minimum wage while paying for daycare and waiting for daddy to get a job...

by fipple 8y ago

bilbo0s 8y ago

??? That's still a bit confusing. Maybe I'm being dense, but one chart is for women with college degrees having babies and the other is for women without college degrees having babies. So what impact would race have on when a woman with a college degree has a baby? (I mean, whether they are married or not is presumably irrelevant to the question of whether they have a college degree. So why would race not be irrelevant to that question?) My question is the similar for the graph of married vs unmarried? If you are married and having a baby, (I mean, unless I'm missing something?), you are married and having a baby. Why would your race change that fact?

danielvf 8y ago
[edit: probably wrong, see below] Great question. If married/college were the only relevant factors, it would not matter. However, there are cultural differences beyond just those. Black women in the US do go to college at approximately the same rate as the rest of the US population, however they are far less likely to study STEM subjects, nor go to graduate school school, and are more likely to be going to a lower tier of school. Also, even college educated black women are far less likely to be married or in long term relationships.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  ??? But the charts are not counting women who have college degrees AND are married. The chart is a count of women who have college degrees and had their first child. So whether or not a college educated black or hispanic woman is married, is totally irrelevant to that question. I'm starting to think that, perhaps, you have misread the graphs? These are not graphs of women who are college educated AND married. These are graphs of women who are college educated. And then there is another set of graphs for women who are married. With both factors isolated to get a true picture of what's going on.
  - danielvf 8y ago
    You are correct, I was misreading the graphs - I'll have to rethink things!
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
timr 8y ago
You're not confused. The parent to this subthread is introducing race as an unnecessary/unsupported factor: the belt of low-age births is simply the bible belt. You don't need to "subtract" race from it (nor can you; it's not clear how you'd map race to birth age without a chart explicitly making the comparison). This whole subthread is a non-sequitur. You can see the pattern in every map except the unmarried, no-college degree map (which is almost entirely in the lowest bin on the histogram).

jessaustin 8y ago

Do you know any 21yo white mothers? None of the ones I know are married. A co-worker informed me she was "getting divorced" this morning, but of course since she isn't married in the first place this amounts to the two families of "in-laws" coming to an understanding concerning visitation and support. They're smart enough to avoid the courts if they can...

fipple 8y ago
Sorry, I don't try to reason based on anecdata about who I know. Slicing by marital status, age, AND race is hard to get but you can get each pair of two from this report and triangulate: http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/754-new-demography-of-motherhood.pdf http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/201...
- jessaustin 8y ago
  No, you can't "triangulate" from the contents of that report. Even the table entitled "Births by Age, Race, Ethnicity and Marital Status of Mother" just lists three time series without demonstrating how the different series interact. Do you want to assume that all the unmarried women are nonwhite, so that will "prove" all the white women are married? It's remarkable, that you don't "reason based on anecdata" but you were happy to kick off the thread with some racist assumptions. Go ahead, show us some "data" about all those 20yo white women who are just taking some time off from their college careers to work minimum wage while paying for daycare and waiting for daddy to get a job...