6 ms·

What you are seeing is what's left of the Bible belt when you subtract out the heavily African American regions out. http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.

What you are seeing is what's left of the Bible belt when you subtract out the heavily African American regions out. http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html That's my big gripe with the NYT article and charts - these would be considerably more informative if they were also broken down by race. As it is, the real story is incredibly blurred.

nerdponx 8y ago
That's the problem with trying to be too PC. If you try to pretend that race doesn't exist, you end up missing stuff.
- spankalee 8y ago
  sigh. PC is _not_ about pretending that race doesn't exist.
brailsafe 8y ago
The opposite is true and I'm glad race is not part of it. These maps are visualising information about aspects of life and we can see where patterns emerge so we can ask questions. This is opposed to starting with perceptually legitimate categorical ways seperating people and working inwards, which isn't usually useful. "We need more discrimination" isn't a sentiment I can get behind.
justin66 8y ago
> That's my big gripe with the NYT article and charts - these would be considerably more informative if they were also broken down by race. As it is, the real story is incredibly blurred. You'd immediately have to double the number of graphics and do god knows what to the amount of text, and that's if you just did a very simplified racial breakdown. Better to leave an ethnic, racial, or religious breakdown (and they're all worth discussing) for a follow-up article.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > You'd immediately have to double the number of graphics Because there are only two races?
  - justin66 8y ago
    Yes, I wasn't presenting an imprecise estimate regarding the absolutely least interesting part of the argument in the interest of brevity and trusting the reader to work it out, or anything of the sort. There are only two races. That's precisely what I meant. Well put.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Yes, I wasn't presenting an imprecise estimate regarding the absolutely least interesting part of the argument in the interest of brevity and trusting the reader to work it out, or anything of the sort. In much the same way that I wasn't obliquely pointing out that your point was well made while underlining that read literally it was a significant underestimate of the added burden, or anything of the sort, I'm sure.
bilbo0s 8y ago
Why does race matter for calculating when married or college educated women have babies? Serious question. I'm genuinely wondering what it means in all of this?
- frockington 8y ago
  Birthrates vary between races. In general, the more established a race is, the lower the birth rate. As an example, Somalian refugees have a higher than average birth rate
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    I get what you're saying, but that doesn't really meet either the scientific nor the popular definition of "race". Recent immigrants have higher birthrates than nth-generation descendants. I've not verified, but my initial assumption is that the less wealthy have higher birthrates than the more wealthy. This isn't really a matter of race, but one of economics and social norms.
    - frockington 8y ago
      I think we're in agreement. I think the difference is often tied to race due to the relative wealth of incoming immigrants compared to the population. I don't think there is some scientific "Because they are this race they will have more children" argument
- fipple 8y ago
  21 year old black mothers are likely to be unmarried without college degrees. 21 year old white mothers are likely to be married and are likely to hold or someday hold a college degree. They’re two entirely different populations and scenarios which get jumbled together when you average them. Its like if you asked “what’s the average height of the most popular American Olympic athletes?” And found that the answer is 5 foot 6. Huh, they’re just like us? No, the gymnasts are 4 foot 8 and the swimmers are 6 foot 4.
  - 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Retric 8y ago
Poverty is a much stronger link: http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html Look at the blob in Arizona for example on Without a college degree vs poverty. So yes the south east black population clusters in similar areas as poverty but out west they look rather different.

nerdponx 8y ago

That's the problem with trying to be too PC. If you try to pretend that race doesn't exist, you end up missing stuff.

spankalee 8y ago
sigh. PC is _not_ about pretending that race doesn't exist.

brailsafe 8y ago

The opposite is true and I'm glad race is not part of it. These maps are visualising information about aspects of life and we can see where patterns emerge so we can ask questions. This is opposed to starting with perceptually legitimate categorical ways seperating people and working inwards, which isn't usually useful. "We need more discrimination" isn't a sentiment I can get behind.

justin66 8y ago

> That's my big gripe with the NYT article and charts - these would be considerably more informative if they were also broken down by race. As it is, the real story is incredibly blurred. You'd immediately have to double the number of graphics and do god knows what to the amount of text, and that's if you just did a very simplified racial breakdown. Better to leave an ethnic, racial, or religious breakdown (and they're all worth discussing) for a follow-up article.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 8y ago
> You'd immediately have to double the number of graphics Because there are only two races?
- justin66 8y ago
  Yes, I wasn't presenting an imprecise estimate regarding the absolutely least interesting part of the argument in the interest of brevity and trusting the reader to work it out, or anything of the sort. There are only two races. That's precisely what I meant. Well put.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Yes, I wasn't presenting an imprecise estimate regarding the absolutely least interesting part of the argument in the interest of brevity and trusting the reader to work it out, or anything of the sort. In much the same way that I wasn't obliquely pointing out that your point was well made while underlining that read literally it was a significant underestimate of the added burden, or anything of the sort, I'm sure.

bilbo0s 8y ago

Why does race matter for calculating when married or college educated women have babies? Serious question. I'm genuinely wondering what it means in all of this?

frockington 8y ago
Birthrates vary between races. In general, the more established a race is, the lower the birth rate. As an example, Somalian refugees have a higher than average birth rate
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  I get what you're saying, but that doesn't really meet either the scientific nor the popular definition of "race". Recent immigrants have higher birthrates than nth-generation descendants. I've not verified, but my initial assumption is that the less wealthy have higher birthrates than the more wealthy. This isn't really a matter of race, but one of economics and social norms.
  - frockington 8y ago
    I think we're in agreement. I think the difference is often tied to race due to the relative wealth of incoming immigrants compared to the population. I don't think there is some scientific "Because they are this race they will have more children" argument
fipple 8y ago
21 year old black mothers are likely to be unmarried without college degrees. 21 year old white mothers are likely to be married and are likely to hold or someday hold a college degree. They’re two entirely different populations and scenarios which get jumbled together when you average them. Its like if you asked “what’s the average height of the most popular American Olympic athletes?” And found that the answer is 5 foot 6. Huh, they’re just like us? No, the gymnasts are 4 foot 8 and the swimmers are 6 foot 4.
- 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Retric 8y ago

Poverty is a much stronger link: http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html Look at the blob in Arizona for example on Without a college degree vs poverty. So yes the south east black population clusters in similar areas as poverty but out west they look rather different.