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How about they built the fscking cars so they would survive being outdoors? I certainly don't have anti-hail navy-grade cannons at home. I never really underst

by kpil 8y ago

How about they built the fscking cars so they would survive being outdoors? I certainly don't have anti-hail navy-grade cannons at home. I never really understood why cars have the outer finish of an indoor piece of art. My car have scratches from my fingernails near the door handles. What's up with that? Should I wear white gloves when I approach the car?

athenot 8y ago
Scratches and dents are 2 different things. All modern cars have paint which is then covered in clear coat (which is then covered in wax). The wax layer can easily be scratched but it also easily buffs out. The clear coat layer is VERY strong and will put up with quite a bit of abuse; you can make that coat even thicker if you so wish, with aftermarket products. Hail doesn't directly damage the clear coat or the paint, it dents the actual metal itself. To make a car that resists those heavy hail storms would require quite a bit of extra weight, and overall this problem is cheaper to solve via insurance than by building a bullet-proof carapace that will add weight and rarely ever get used.
- thatcat 8y ago
  It would only be a lot of weight if you use steel. Remember the 90s saturns with plastic doors that would just pop back after being dented? The problem is that deformation properties in steel are used to absorb impact as a safety device during collision.
- catskul2 8y ago
  > ...building a bullet-proof carapace... I see what you did there.
- kpil 8y ago
  It was an example. It's delicate in every possible way. It tolerates water, marginally, but that's it. I also understand that it's better for the manufacturer that I pay through my insurance or otherwise, but that is not my point.
superbaconman 8y ago
I agree. I'd like a nice form, but I don't really care too much about having something flashy. I want an exterior that can withstand the elements and last the lifetime of the vehicle.
amelius 8y ago
> I never really understood why cars have the outer finish of an indoor piece of art. My car have scratches from my fingernails near the door handles. What's up with that? Should I wear white gloves when I approach the car? I don't understand why people even care. My bicycle has scratches all over the frame, and other users seem to don't care either and park their bicycle against mine without worrying about scratches. Also, I don't understand car bumpers. They look sturdy, but one small parking error and they're basically destroyed beyond repair. My main message to designers: don't make products that look sturdy but are in fact fragile!
- chooseaname 8y ago
  Cars are designed to buckle around the occupants in order to absorb as much of the crash energy as possible resulting in more saved lives. Older cars, the ones people remember being built like tanks, were designed[0] to save the car, not the occupant. [0] If not intentional, it's the way it ended up.
  - amelius 8y ago
    Good point, but can't we have both? I.e., bumper deforms, but then takes back its original shape after impact is over? Or save car if speed <5mph and save occupant if speed >=5mph?
    - mrguyorama 8y ago
      My understanding is that a 5mph collision should not even harm the bumper. As in, that's how they are designed. Maybe some paint will trade, but nothing that requires a repair
      - mikestew 8y ago
        That was over thirty years ago. In 1983, standards were changed to cut the collision speed in half, resulting in the delicate little things we call "bumpers" today. (Don't know that it worthy of a downvotes just because you haven't kept up with U. S. automotive safety standards, though.)
robbrown451 8y ago
I'm curious why you are so worried about those scratches (which probably will easily buff out). If you don't think cars should have such a finish, why are you so worried about maintaining it as such?
loco5niner 8y ago
> My car have scratches from my fingernails near the door handles Are you sure it's from fingernails and not keys?
newnewpdro 8y ago
While I share your sentiment to some extent, it's somewhat unrealistic to expect automobiles to be impervious to any size of hailstorm to the extent that they may be sold as-new on the showroom floor afterwards. The main issue I believe is the use of relatively thin aluminum body panels to save weight. They could be made from composites like carbon fiber and wouldn't be as vulnerable to hail damage, but that's still a relatively exotic high-cost material.
saltcured 8y ago
The environment is full of extremely abrasive particles. It probably isn't your fingernail itself that is scratching the paint, but the microscopic grit between your nail and the paint which acts like sandpaper. You drag those particles across the paint and they dig in like tiny cutting tools. This is the same reason that keeping eyeglasses and other optics scratch-free takes careful cleaning technique. One careless wipe when there is the wrong kind of dust on the lens or on the cloth, and you gouge the surface.

by kpil 8y ago

athenot 8y ago

Scratches and dents are 2 different things. All modern cars have paint which is then covered in clear coat (which is then covered in wax). The wax layer can easily be scratched but it also easily buffs out. The clear coat layer is VERY strong and will put up with quite a bit of abuse; you can make that coat even thicker if you so wish, with aftermarket products. Hail doesn't directly damage the clear coat or the paint, it dents the actual metal itself. To make a car that resists those heavy hail storms would require quite a bit of extra weight, and overall this problem is cheaper to solve via insurance than by building a bullet-proof carapace that will add weight and rarely ever get used.

thatcat 8y ago
It would only be a lot of weight if you use steel. Remember the 90s saturns with plastic doors that would just pop back after being dented? The problem is that deformation properties in steel are used to absorb impact as a safety device during collision.
catskul2 8y ago
> ...building a bullet-proof carapace... I see what you did there.
kpil 8y ago
It was an example. It's delicate in every possible way. It tolerates water, marginally, but that's it. I also understand that it's better for the manufacturer that I pay through my insurance or otherwise, but that is not my point.

superbaconman 8y ago

I agree. I'd like a nice form, but I don't really care too much about having something flashy. I want an exterior that can withstand the elements and last the lifetime of the vehicle.

amelius 8y ago

> I never really understood why cars have the outer finish of an indoor piece of art. My car have scratches from my fingernails near the door handles. What's up with that? Should I wear white gloves when I approach the car? I don't understand why people even care. My bicycle has scratches all over the frame, and other users seem to don't care either and park their bicycle against mine without worrying about scratches. Also, I don't understand car bumpers. They look sturdy, but one small parking error and they're basically destroyed beyond repair. My main message to designers: don't make products that look sturdy but are in fact fragile!

chooseaname 8y ago
Cars are designed to buckle around the occupants in order to absorb as much of the crash energy as possible resulting in more saved lives. Older cars, the ones people remember being built like tanks, were designed[0] to save the car, not the occupant. [0] If not intentional, it's the way it ended up.
- amelius 8y ago
  Good point, but can't we have both? I.e., bumper deforms, but then takes back its original shape after impact is over? Or save car if speed <5mph and save occupant if speed >=5mph?
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    My understanding is that a 5mph collision should not even harm the bumper. As in, that's how they are designed. Maybe some paint will trade, but nothing that requires a repair
    - mikestew 8y ago
      That was over thirty years ago. In 1983, standards were changed to cut the collision speed in half, resulting in the delicate little things we call "bumpers" today. (Don't know that it worthy of a downvotes just because you haven't kept up with U. S. automotive safety standards, though.)

robbrown451 8y ago

I'm curious why you are so worried about those scratches (which probably will easily buff out). If you don't think cars should have such a finish, why are you so worried about maintaining it as such?

loco5niner 8y ago

> My car have scratches from my fingernails near the door handles Are you sure it's from fingernails and not keys?

newnewpdro 8y ago

While I share your sentiment to some extent, it's somewhat unrealistic to expect automobiles to be impervious to any size of hailstorm to the extent that they may be sold as-new on the showroom floor afterwards. The main issue I believe is the use of relatively thin aluminum body panels to save weight. They could be made from composites like carbon fiber and wouldn't be as vulnerable to hail damage, but that's still a relatively exotic high-cost material.

saltcured 8y ago

The environment is full of extremely abrasive particles. It probably isn't your fingernail itself that is scratching the paint, but the microscopic grit between your nail and the paint which acts like sandpaper. You drag those particles across the paint and they dig in like tiny cutting tools. This is the same reason that keeping eyeglasses and other optics scratch-free takes careful cleaning technique. One careless wipe when there is the wrong kind of dust on the lens or on the cloth, and you gouge the surface.